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Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

economist.com

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Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#471

Post by hc-taway »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #447
zionic wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future generations will consider us barbarians for dosing our young boys with drugs because we providing them with physical education/exercise was inconvenient to us. They'll also be able to datamine the internet from this time period and use our own words to hang us.

Depends on the medication. If they're on stims in particular, and the meds actually improve their behavior, then the cause most likely isn't insufficient PE time.

The effect of amphetamines on kids with ADHD is to improve school performance.

The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD is to improve school performance.

The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD but who've been diagnosed with ADHD because they're not getting enough exercise is... to improve school performance.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#472

Post by TeMPOraL »

powersnail wrote: post #468
zionic wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future generations will consider us barbarians for dosing our young boys with drugs because we providing them with physical education/exercise was inconvenient to us. They'll also be able to datamine the internet from this time period and use our own words to hang us.

I hope that's what will happen. It means that the future will not need to dose people with drugs. We'll have created a world where people's natural physique is mostly enough for living a happy life. In a darker vision, the future society will be more heavily dependent on drugs, regardless of age.

It will not, because it doesn't impact the genetic/hereditary factors in any way. Getting your body in shape does not cure actual ADHD. Exercise makes it at best manageable for the low-severity cases.

> In a darker vision, the future society will be more heavily dependent on drugs, regardless of age.

It's kind of a given, until we transition to post-drug era, where we inject our bodies with nanobots that fix what wasn't already fixed by genetic engineering of the gametes.

Until then, I think it's worth re-evaluating this view while replacing "ADHD" with "diabetes" or "hypertension" or "rheumatism" or "asthma" or... insert any persistent and disruptive condition a person may suffer from regardless of the shape in which they keep their body. We should apply drugs where they help more than they harm, until we have better alternatives.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#473

Post by kaitai »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #408
endisneigh wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "women are wonderful" effect doesn't stop. I would ask you actually search around a little and read my point again, as well as the many other comments, before dragging down the conversation with phrases such as "convenient excuse". How do you reconcile this with discrimination towards women? Also the whole trope that women somehow cannot compete and can only collaborate, as if the two things are at odds, is als…

There are multiple possible explanations as to why they won't compete. One of them is incapability through biological inferiority, which I highly doubt is the case. Another is systematic bias. Another is really as simple as not wanting to . Again, please read what is actually written, not what you want to answer to. Frankly, this "discrimination towards women" may as well be turned around with one simple trick. Which…

If you think women aren't competing and being judged, simply with another set of criteria, you've... not talked to a lot of women.

Which of the two sexes is more likely to have their worth as partner be judged based on their [looks, and maybe second emotional support]? Last time I checked, [men] are a lot more judgmental of their partner's [looks] than [women] are, frequently to the point of wanting a [gal] who is relatively "better" than themselves. You think that has no influence on competitiveness? When your worth as a romantic partner gets tied heavily to [this one primary thing, and then the emotional support bit], which can be found in a field emphasizing competitiveness, surely you can imagine [women] respond by ... well, what am I supposed to fill in here? But if you think carefully about this, being agreeable (what's optimized for in this school stuff) is other than appearance probably the single most important currency a woman has.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#474

Post by berdario »

throwgender123 wrote: post #212

I've noticed throughout my life that negative outcomes that primarily affect females (math test scores, wage gap, etc) are Huge Problems That Demand Immediate Action, and negative outcomes that primarily affect males (language test scores, life expectancy gap) are just kind of how it is. I'm not bitching about it or pushing an agenda, but it's not subtle.

Maybe?

the wage gap has clear reasons (mens' jobs are better paid, women get promoted less) and thus clear solutions (stop discriminating against women at hiring/promotion time, or improve women's retention thus allowing them to stick in a job for longer, improving their chances at a promotion), even if these solutions are easier said than done.

the life expectancy gap instead... what are the reasons? I suspect that in some cultures it can be because of gender-specific abuse of alcohol... but if that's the reason ( or even if otherwise if the reason is biological) I'm not sure that we have an obvious solution to the problem.

Also, I presume that language test score could be as concerning as math test scores... but the latter will help students pursue a STEM career, which is better remunerated than a career that makes use of knowledge of languages. From that point of view, to improve opportunities later in life, fixing math scores can have priority.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#475

Post by serjester »

This is just my experience but these days I read 50ish books year - back in school I would do everything possible to avoid assigned reading. None of them spoke to me, I wasn't particularly interested in figuring out a books underlying theme.

Out of my friends, none of us enjoyed this. All my teachers were always women and I have to wonder if the curriculum was designed by someone more like us would we have gotten more from it? I honestly don't know.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#476

Post by hvJ4kN »

wassenaar10 wrote: post #342
hvJ4kN wrote: post #278

Any research on gender past infancy has a problem in that it's hard to untangle what is "innate" and what is a result of differentiated socialization based on gender. There's a lot of speculation in this forum about whether this is because of different distributions of IQ, effects of testosterone, etc., but how can we possibly determine if these are true differences or the result of parents, teachers, and other peopl…

Modern progressivism has apparently solved that issue already. I'll demonstrate: Whenever statistics show an imbalance that benefits men, say in earnings, prestigious jobs, or positions of leadership, then the modern worldview dictates that this must be a result of a nefarious bias on the part of society or men as a group, aka "the patriarchy". On the other hand, whenever the statistics show an imbalance that benefit…

I'm not sure what your point is. I agree that all of your examples are just further cases where being sloppy about innate vs. learned differences results in bad policy.

The statement "men do worse here because of patriarchal social norms that ultimately end up hurting them" doesn't imply men are responsible for their own misfortune; this seems to misunderstand how society affects its members. In the context of violent crime, an example hypothesis would be that boys are taught by their families, movies, etc. that violence is a valuable part of being male, and because of this social norm, more men end up committing violent crimes. It seems crazy to suggest that a man affected by these cultural norms could have chosen to be brought up in a different environment; I don't know that people are suggesting this when they claim that patriarchal social norms are a problem.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#477

Post by tester756 »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #371
tester756 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the test that's testing whether you're proficent with _official method_? or maybe because your _official method_ was "under some assumptions" or "by guessing that" I've heard that complain countless times from friends and I think always the reason was that it wasn't formally correct.

Why do you need to use a specific method to solve a problem? Especially with something broad like algebra, there are often many ways to solve a problem.

Because teacher on previous lesson tried to teach the class e.g about using derivatives to find extremas, and now he's testing whether you managed to learn it.

his job is mainly to teach you stuff.

Of course there are also tests where you can use anything you want as long as it is formally correct e.g leaving school exams, end of semester exams and many more...

It's not the greatest approach but I guess it scales?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#478

Post by supergirl »

dang wrote: post #249

Discussed at the time: Boys are being outclassed by girls at both school and university - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9158812 - March 2015 (70 comments)

> HN is not mature enough to hold a discussion related to gender issues.

underrated comment from the old thread

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#479

Post by tester756 »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #358
tester756 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that he's been living in cave?

Because culturally the world (At least the western world) has the complete opposite attitude. Feelings are more important than facts to many people nowadays.

>Feelings are more important than facts to many people nowadays.

is it good or bad in your opinion?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#480

Post by tester756 »

viach wrote: post #312
FactCore wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your sentiment interesting, but we can't ignore a fact in favor of not hurting people's feelings. Of course, more research is always being done, so I'm sure in a few years a new research paper will come out and we will hear a different facts about a certain gender's academic performance. Then next big paper comes out and the cycle repeats. That's just my two cents anyways.

> but we can't ignore a fact in favor of not hurting people's feelings This should be either a perfectly put sarcastic statement or a result of living in a sort of cultural isolation in the past decade.

why?
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