Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, software that controls a car is a new thing. So I would imagine that it hasn't really been regulated yet in most jurisdictions. For some reason we have a tendency to write laws so that they are specific to individual things rather than general and future prof laws.
I don’t get why it’s not covered under existing laws, clearly every vehicle has to be operated by a driver with a valid license correct? You would think letting a vehicle drive without a licensed operator at the wheel would be negligence.
Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
471–480 of 581 posts
Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#472Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#473Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
>costs a fraction of the cost of lidar What makes lidar for use in self-driving that expensive? I have a robot-vacuum with a lidar that wasn't all that expensive.
>What makes lidar for use in self-driving that expensive? I have a robot-vacuum with a lidar that wasn't all that expensive. Waymo says it cost $75,000 for the lidar in one car a decade ago, and in 2019 they said they got the cost down to $7,500. So at the time Tesla decided to forgo lidar the costs were certainly very high. I'm guessing the range in your vacuum is multiple orders of magnitude less than a car. Waymo…
Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#475It's interesting to see these two companies butting heads.
Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you aware how low the deaths per mile is for humans? I don't think we know if Waymo has a lower rate than a human yet. Tesla I don't know, but wouldn't be surprised if it is higher.
> In the 4th quarter, we registered one accident for every 3.45 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.05 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.27 million miles driven. By comparison, NHT…
Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#477Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nobody in the autonomous car industry had produced anything yet. Tesla has the best system of those actually in use. Waymo is actually operating a driverless paid service in Arizona [0] with point to point pick up and drop off. Does Tesla actually offer this service today? [0] https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/01/04/waymo-driverless-...
> driverless paid service Which works in one small limited area of the earth because of high-def maps, which is not what you would normally call "scalable".
Back to the original goalposts, as far as I know, Waymo is the only company that at this point, does offer a commercial service that's fully driverless. As you point out, they don't cover all of Earth, but neither do any of their competitors. Even Uber and Lyft, with human drivers, don't support all pick up and drop off locations, they only work in certain service areas.
Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with your sentiments on driver assist. I'm not comfortable with the ambiguity of responsibility. But that's not really the key point, it's just how we feel. These features act as premium goodies, like old cruise control or whatever. People buy them, use them. They generate data. User-developer feedback loops. That's already a fact. The debate is about the importance of this . The core debate (of this article:…
I think we can reduce this argument further. Musk thinks that is it acceptable to ship features when there is a safety risk, Waymo doesn't There is also a bit of ego in there as well. Tesla have made a business decision not to use lidar. Its nothing to do with the maturity of the tech. Tesla have spent Billions of dollars trying to re-create a lidar like depth sensor using radar and monocular slam. Its just not going…
That is not the actual debate in this article though. It's not the debate between Tesla and Waymo's CEOs. That debate is about the path to a technological goal: actually autonomous vehicles.
The lidar question is closer to the core of the debate, but IMO it's a detail. Here the disagreement might have gotten unproductive. As you say, egos (famously big & nerdy ones) have have been dragged into it.
>> Tesla have made a business decision not to use lidar. It's nothing to do with the maturity of the tech.
I agree with the first and disagree with the second statement. This, IMO, is actually at the core of the debate. In (my assumed version of) Musk's Modus Operandi, technology strategy and business strategy converge much more than in the Waymo/Krafcik MO... They're at opposite ends of the poll.
Business decisions are R&D decisions. Putting things into production is R&D, affects R&D, determines R&D.
In a caricature/model version of the Waymo MO, technology is invented in a research lab. Once it's ready, it can be productized outside of the lab. "Technology" is defined as the core "proof of concept." In the Musk MO, technology is produced in an industry/company. A lab cannot reduce the price of computing by half every 18 months for decades. A lab can't improve the price/weight/performance of batteries to the point of EV viability. It takes an active industry/market to do these things. You need customers. You need commercially scale factories, increasing annual unit production. Etc. Large and increasing numbers of people working on it.
A lot of technology never leaves R&D. Lunar Travel didn't becomes cheaper over time. This confuses people because we expect technology to improve. Doing something people did 50 years ago should be cheap and easy, intuitively. In reality, that momentum is not a guarantee. If no one works on it, it doesn't improve. Software, hardware and such improve at a monstrous pace. But, every year there are way more people working on hardware and software. If the space "industry" had 100X more people working on it compared to 60s, it would have improved to.
I'm not calling Musk's approach superior, but Waymo's is certainly more common. Novelty itself is valuable. It's interesting that we have both approaches at play. n=2, but at least we'll get to see how this plays out.
Re: Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not how it works”
#480I have a model Y and what it has today is 80% as useful as a completely self driving car. It’s mostly self driving on the highway, and the situations it can’t handle are very predictable: toll booths, stopped cars in the middle of the road, things like that. You need to available to drive but you always have plenty of warning before you need to take over.
This only has to be false once.
I'd also like to highlight that sometimes AP has frightening regressions. One case was labeled "barrier lust", where - on a divider - AP would follow the wrong white line, and steer the car towards a barrier. See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8a0jfh/autopil...
It was fixed, after Walter Huang died through such a case.
Until the behavior returned some months later: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/b36x27/its_bac...
So please be careful. Regardless of the value you put on your own life, car accidents impact more than just yourself.