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TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

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Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#471

Post by afavour »

laurent92 wrote: post #409
flower-giraffe wrote: post #211

I think the funding and governance (by Royal Charter) of the BBC have historically provided a huge benefit to society in the UK. Advertising free children’s TV (and radio) may have delayed the onset or rampant consumerism fuelled by commercial TV elsewhere. The BBC microcomputer project is arguably the origin of ARM CPU’s. Initially the license fee was for radios, I can’t find a reference but I remember being told as…

> What is absolutely clear from history is commercial media outlets fuel political bias, and it seems to be increasingly damaging to society. Public broadcasting fuels political division a lot. The most worrying is that you don’t notice it. It is increasingly worrying because when people are exposed to the other side, they immediately « catch fire », wonder why they have been lied to, and never trust public broadcast…

I regularly see the BBC criticised by both sides for being one sided. I’m not saying that’s a get out of jail free card but from your comment I genuinely don’t know which side you come down on, which surely says something.

I don't mean to dismiss the complaint. Public media news is weird: it's funded by the government, but it should criticise the government. There's a tension there. But looking at the US news landscape I see that for-profit news is just as if not more compromised.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#472

Post by RajuVarghese »

lqet wrote: post #38

> The United Kingdom is somewhat unique in the world for requiring those households which view broadcast television to purchase a licence for the privilege. I know at least three countries (Germany, Austria and Switzerland) which do the same (edit: according the Wikipedia [0], such a fee exists in basically every European country, Japan, Israel, South Korea and Namibia). In Germany, the situation changed a few years…

Yes, Switzerland also had roving vans with equipment with which they could detect a switched on TV. I know because I got caught about 40 years back and had to pay a fine. The person that came to the door could tell us exactly where the TV was in the living room. So, those vans - or something like it - did exist!

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#473

Post by flower-giraffe »

laurent92 wrote: post #409
flower-giraffe wrote: post #211

I think the funding and governance (by Royal Charter) of the BBC have historically provided a huge benefit to society in the UK. Advertising free children’s TV (and radio) may have delayed the onset or rampant consumerism fuelled by commercial TV elsewhere. The BBC microcomputer project is arguably the origin of ARM CPU’s. Initially the license fee was for radios, I can’t find a reference but I remember being told as…

> What is absolutely clear from history is commercial media outlets fuel political bias, and it seems to be increasingly damaging to society. Public broadcasting fuels political division a lot. The most worrying is that you don’t notice it. It is increasingly worrying because when people are exposed to the other side, they immediately « catch fire », wonder why they have been lied to, and never trust public broadcast…

> To me, public TV, especially BBC, shouldn’t be one-sided as it is now.

I don’t think it is, and it’s certainly not meant to be. The law in the UK is quite clear and there is a framework and regulatory body to enforce it.

From https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/broadcast-co...

“To ensure that news, in whatever form, is reported with due accuracy and presented with due impartiality.”

Personally I occasionally find that the BBC news website misses the mark, more often on quality than bias but they have a very transparent and available complaints process online that I suggest you use if you have noticed specific instances of bias.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#474

Post by scotty79 »

eplanit wrote: post #430
scotty79 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if people will ever notice how socially and psychologically toxic is advertisement business and regulate it stringently.

Less toxic than law enforcement knocking on my door to see if I have a damn television. I'd rather reign in authoritarianism.

Driving door to door is insane for me. They'd be much better off if they funded BBC from tax directly. People should pay for it to exist whether they have TV or not becuse everybody benefits(?) from culture creatd by BBC.

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#475

Post by OJFord »

antibuddy wrote: post #459
0xfaded wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Europe now, and I'm fine with high taxation. But for heaven's sake, call a tax a tax. There are so many little things, whether its TV licenses, overpriced interactions with the DNV equivalent, overpriced tolls that were promised to be eliminated. The list goes on. Fortunately most European countries have an awesome statistics office that gives visibility into government wastage. Unfortunately, the the socia…

A tax would be fairer than the actual system is. You have to pay a fixed amount regardless of your income. (At least in Germany and the UK)

That's not really 'fairer' in any absolute sense, and a tax needn't be a rate, nevermind one w.r.t. income, but it could be, or even progressive.

I'd probably argue 'fair' would be per usage, or per television. The latter would even be easier to implement - just slap a duty on sales as with alcohol and tobacco.

(Actually, that would be great, the defining characteristic would presumably be the presence of a tuner (or network in today's age?), so it would create a market for television-like panels without tuners or consequently without being 'smart', I'd hope.)

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#476

Post by flower-giraffe »

criddell wrote: post #394
lotsofpulp wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ads just moved directly into the shows and storylines for Amazon Prime and Netflix (and most everyone else).

Has anything really changed? There have always been kids programming that was primarily about selling toys. I'm thinking of Care Bears, GI Joe, Transforms, Voltron, etc... When shows like that move to Netflix or Amazon Prime the native ads remain, but the interstitials are gone.

> Has anything really changed? There have always been kids programming that was primarily about selling toys

Not on the BBC, that’s my point.

I’m sure there are plenty of people here that remember Blue Peter and sticky-back plastic (unobtanium in my childhood) along with empty washing up liquid bottles with logo redacted (presumably with stick-back plastic)

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#477

Post by OJFord »

bidirectional wrote: post #397
wackro wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might feel personal but I'm fairly sure those letters are sent out blanket style. I've had 4 or 5 in the past and none have been addressed to me personally.

The whole thing is just horrible and leaves such a poor taste in the mouth. Threatening letters with "You are under investigation" in bright red capitals and 'inspectors' who heavily imply you need to let them in to look at your TV despite that not being a legal requirement. The BBC act like thugs.

It's contracted out to the same sort of scammy thugs as parking tickets. It's absolutely designed to seem (public) official and threatening, when it's nothing more than a private company saying 'please give me money'.

It's just somehow more organised into a whole industry than say shops chasing shoplifters (which is an actual crime vs. all the innocent/someone else's cock-up parking tickets people get).

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#478

Post by technothrasher »

YVYAN: [looking at watch] Hey! Turn on the telly!

MIKE: Good thinking, Vyv! We need information! [they run to the sofa]

VYVYAN: No! I'm just in time for Afternoon Plus! [leaps on couch between Mike and Neil. Rick turns on a the TV. We see a test picture and soft music.] Well turn it over then! [Rick changes the channel. Test picture and soft music]

VYVYAN: Well, you might as well try the other one!

RICK: Alright! Alright! [Rick changes the channel. Test pictue and soft music. The boys groan, Rick turns off the TV]

RICK: Absolutely pathetic! There's nothing on at all! Humph! Don't know why we bother to pay our license!

MIKE: We don't.

RICK: But, haven't we got a license?

MIKE: No.

RICK: But that makes me a criminal! [thinks about it] Right on! Yeah, this will shake them up at the Anarchists Society! Occupying the refectories! So what? This is the real stuff! I'm a fugitive! A desperado! I'm going to form a new union society, right? With me as president! 'People Who Don't Pay Their TV Licenses Against the Nazis!' [takes out pad and pen and starts writing] This is only the beginning!

Re: TV detector vans once prowled the streets of England

#480

Post by SllX »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #424
caspper69 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite your feelings on the issue, the difference is quite stark. Relying on allocations in yearly budgets, subject to the political whims of lawmakers, is clearly a different animal altogether.

Why can’t the law be written so that the allocation can’t be changed (as easily)? Even right now, the politicians can choose to enact legislation to modify or remove the tv license fee.

During renegotiation, sure Parliament can opt not to renew. But for the duration of the charter, the BBC has an uninterrupted period of collections beyond the fiscal year of the government, which cannot be raided to fund the new social program of the day.
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