> And that could be used for good reasons — like people trying to create Windows emulating software on Macs, for example Not really. It violates the major principle of clean room reverse engineering. That's why Wine developers are strictly avoiding such kind of situations. It can taint the result with legal problems.
The way the original IBM PC BIOS was rewritten was one team analyzed the code and documented what it did, and another team implemented it from the documentation. Having source code to start with helps with the first step.
Windows XP source code has leaked
471–480 of 485 posts
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup. When saying "XP was great", people mean "XP SP2 and on" - for me, the move from W2k to WXP was "the same thing, now with Fischer-Price aesthetic!"
I say this as somebody who really enjoyed W2K, but the complaints about WinXP's default theme are very difficult to understand when: - The classic theme was just a few clicks away - Of all the problems with XP, I would not even list the "easily changed default theme" in the top.... 100 or so. I would not expect to see such sentiment on HN, of all places.
(We did some printing. In the range of 1M pages/workstation. It...worked...on XP. Eventually.)
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again, I find incredible cool what the Linux community has accomplished. And yes, the update process in Linux is much more simple in theory (sudo apt update). However, at least for my use case, the pros do not outweigh the cons. Firs cons: lack of key apps (Microsoft Office and Adobe Creative Suite). Second cons: lack of OEM produced drivers, which means that some things work worst than in Windows. Example, energy ma…
> Firs cons: lack of key apps (Microsoft Office and Adobe Creative Suite). Propitiatory commercial applications, sure. But there's plenty of open source counterparts. I've been using LibreOffice (and OpenOffice before then) for years and while it does lack a lot of polish compared to MS Office most of the issues with it are really just cosmetic. Plus I never liked the ribbon bar anyway. Adobe Creative Suite is a bigg…
> Ultimately though, it all boils down to habits and personal preferences rather than X being better than Y.
I have no problem changing systems if I see the value/advantage. I have changed systems in the past. Started with Ti994a, DOS, OS/2, Windows 95, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 10. In the middle I tried Linux, may variants: Mandrake, Redhat, Suse, Gentoo, Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint, Manjaro, and many others just to see how they looked/worked. I even worked with AIX and Solaris at work. What I mean is that I can adapt and work if needed be. My main point is that I don't suffer all of the pains, with the exception of telemetry, that Linux users have against Windows.
> Propitiatory commercial applications, sure. But there's plenty of open source counterparts. I've been using LibreOffice (and OpenOffice before then) for years and while it does lack a lot of polish compared to MS Office most of the issues with it are really just cosmetic. Plus I never liked the ribbon bar anyway. Adobe Creative Suite is a bigger problem. I have heard of professionals uses open source counterparts and getting on well with it but the last thing a person wants is technology getting in the way of their creative process (a sentiment I'm intimately familiar with from a music composition perspective).
I don't care if it is commercial or free, proprietary or open source. I care that is the best software for the job. That said, Office has become easier as I can use the Online version or Gsuite.
> I honestly prefer Linux for driver support. Windows was such a pain in the arse with having to install 3rd party drivers (though that's less the case these days) where as on Linux everything just worked with the default install. That said, you do sometimes find edge cases where drivers are missing functionality but it's not all that common. With regards to battery life, I a lot of that will also be down to tuning. Windows ships some pretty aggressive tuning features where as Linux basically ships untuned. You can do that manually and it is a bit of a joke that users have to do it manually. But I've found losing an hour or two off a 10 hour run time isn't all that painful.
The problem is that I don't see the point of expending a week trying to fine tune Ubuntu, or whatever version I want to use, when I can just install Windows 10 and it works perfectly out off the box. At least for my use cases.
> I actually find the opposite to be true. Most things are more complicated to do in Windows. Developer tools, programming language support, containerisation/docker, debugging tools, networking tools, automation (this is by far the worst thing about running Windows for me), resolving issues (far easier to fix a broken Linux install), documentation (far better documentation in Linux), error reporting, etc.
I never found using developer tools, programming languages, debugging tools, networking tools, are more complicated in Windows. Same for resolving issues (I had to reinstall Windows very phew times, maybe one or two because I couldn't fix something and it was easier to just reinstall). I don't use containers/docker, so I cannot comment there.
> Updates are a key thing too. Windows: you need a thousand different update managers running on start up. You need to regularly reboot due to Windows update (which forcefully locks you out of your system whether you want it to or not). Linux: everything is managed from one package manager and no reboots required (unless it's a kernel update but even then it installs it without locking you out and the reboot is just to load the new kernel)
This one I totally agree. Linux is much better at updating than Windows. No discussion here. The main problem is when there are non-official repositories.
> Another bugbare is having to browse for applications on the internet, avoiding phishing sites for popular software, then manually downloading and installing it. Repeatedly for some applications that don't have update managers too. Users shouldn't be doing this in 2020 -- it's just a crap way to manage software.
I don't see it as a big problem. I know the apps I want and I can just install them. But I understand how this could make life easier for some.
> That's why you use package managers ;)
The problem is that not all apps are on the repos ;) In my experience if the repo has the app, and it is installed regularly, all fine. If it not updated or does not exists, it is a pain.
> BSD is going to be much more painful for you than Linux given the complaints you're making about Linux. You're better off trying a Mint Linux. Or if you don't mind the one time pain installing Arch then go with that (Arch has no installer, you have to do it all manually. Which sucks for non-techies but once you're over that hurdle it's probably the most painless OS I've ever ran over long periods of time)
I don't mind. I tried OpenBSD, NetBSD, and DragonFly. I have OpenBSD running. As a desktop OS I don't see the advantage over Linux, much less over Windows.
> I don't rate Ubuntu much as a distribution. Canonical spend too much time reinventing the wheel and not enough time fixing the common complaints with Linux (though `snap` is an attempt at that but unfortunately even there Canonical's solution is hamfisted).
Don't get me there :)
Anyway, I always have a Linux laptop running around. I currently have Manjaro, but I will be trying Tumbleweed soon. I would love to one day totally move to Linux. I am not loosing hope.
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Firs cons: lack of key apps (Microsoft Office and Adobe Creative Suite). Propitiatory commercial applications, sure. But there's plenty of open source counterparts. I've been using LibreOffice (and OpenOffice before then) for years and while it does lack a lot of polish compared to MS Office most of the issues with it are really just cosmetic. Plus I never liked the ribbon bar anyway. Adobe Creative Suite is a bigg…
Let me start by saying that I don't want to convince you to use Windows ;) What I am trying to do is show how it all depends from where you are coming from, where your experience is at. > Ultimately though, it all boils down to habits and personal preferences rather than X being better than Y. I have no problem changing systems if I see the value/advantage. I have changed systems in the past. Started with Ti994a, DOS…
I don't really much else to add aside that the boundaries these days are definitely a lot more blurred due to WSL (bringing many of Linux's tooling to Windows) and web applications (levelling the playing field somewhat in terms of application support). Both of which are largely a good thing for users.
Thanks again for the conversation. These topics often end badly and it's been nice to have a discussion like this without any of the flamewars :)
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me start by saying that I don't want to convince you to use Windows ;) What I am trying to do is show how it all depends from where you are coming from, where your experience is at. > Ultimately though, it all boils down to habits and personal preferences rather than X being better than Y. I have no problem changing systems if I see the value/advantage. I have changed systems in the past. Started with Ti994a, DOS…
Good discussion. I enjoyed this. Thank you. I don't really much else to add aside that the boundaries these days are definitely a lot more blurred due to WSL (bringing many of Linux's tooling to Windows) and web applications (levelling the playing field somewhat in terms of application support). Both of which are largely a good thing for users. Thanks again for the conversation. These topics often end badly and it's…
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's radio active for those projects if some reason they tried using this info.
That's so sad that we have to waste time implementing bug-compatibility with the proprietary software. There should be some law about interoperability.
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not about specialized knowledge...it's about regular maintenance. Hate me or not...but people can't be trusted (broadly) to maintain things...thats just the way life works.
Why should they be forced to, at the expense of things that matter to them, though? That's the problem. Automatic updates were a default. People turned them off because they were annoying. One solution to this problem was to make them not-annoying, but instead Microsoft opted to become aggressive and force people to update. I will never hold anyone who thinks this is a good idea in high regard because they are active…
It's really that simple...cry about it all you want. It's a necessary evil...because humans.
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
And if it were left open ended at the request of people like you...we'd still have compromised systems out there spread amongst normal people as well as within infrastructure and other more critical pieces of hardware. People cannot be trusted to upgrade. It REALLY IS good to force people to upgrade.
>People cannot be trusted to upgrade. It REALLY IS good to force people to upgrade. This is such a stupid, frustrating argument to hear. Pro and Enterprise shouldn't be the same in this regard as Home but often are. Four days ago I had to entertain a courier waiting to pick up a 6-figures piece of equipment for a waiting air-freight cargo plane, for immediate transport to a remote mining site, all because the fucking…
Reality is often frustrating, I agree.
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I hope this source code can allow me to boot XP natively on my main laptop, so I don't have to carry around another computer just for compatibility. In my experience, Windows XP runs fine on relatively modern hardware. The biggest offender is generally storage drivers (AHCI). You can download a driver and re-pack the installer with it. Note that I haven't tried this in a long time, it might not be practical anymore…
'In my experience, Windows XP runs fine on relatively modern hardware.' How modern? And what hardware models? Was the newer hardware Win 7 compatible or later? I wish you'd be more specific and tell us how as it's never worked for me even after mucking about with different PC hardware and various different AHCI and other drivers.
- Intel Core 2 Quad and Xeon E5472, DDR2. Old-ish (the xeon came out in 2010), but I used that system as my main until 2018 -- though with Linux.
- Samsung N220 (or quite similar) netbook. That thing originally came out with Win7 starter, and was a slog with it.
A cursory search ("Ryzen XP") gives plenty of results: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/installing-windows-xp-on-a... https://community.hwbot.org/topic/189776-xp-works-on-ryzen/
Though by now ReactOS might be better supported, especially on modern HW.
Re: Windows XP source code has leaked
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the next update may reset some of them. The Edge update comes to mind that had reset the browser preference presumably to be able to push edge again.
Because that's how installing software works on Windows. You install a new program which can open JPGs, it's not allowed to grab control of all JPGs unilaterally. Instead it registers itself as a handler of JPGs. Next time you try to open one, Windows prompts you "you have a new program which can do X, what do you want to use?" and you get to keep your old one, or choose the new one, once or every time. Get a new bro…
one of the updates most certainly was not just a mime handler update. They pushed a new edge (when they swapped to chromium) and rather than leave people with old edge as their browser, they just flat out set new edge as your browser without checking what you had otherwise, and set it to auto run on your next boot.