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Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

wsj.com

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Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#471

Post by kalleboo »

ecf wrote: post #163
bww wrote: post #120

This is a very bad look on Apple. Regardless of the enforceability of their agreements, the sense of entitlement that underlies Apple’s position is shocking. The claim that Epic has “lined [its] pockets at Apple’s expense” implies that Apple deserves to sit in the middle of every transaction that happens on their devices and take a margin. This is the world’s most valuable company we’re talking about here; assertions…

> Maybe next Toyota will decide that they deserve a percentage of Uber’s revenue because Toyota's cars help facilitate Uber’s business? There are many car manufacturers that Uber could choose from in just the same way that there are many platforms that developers can develop for. Stop trying to spread the idea that the ability to make apps for the iPhone is an inalienable right.

The iOS App Store has 70% of the mobile revenue share. Many developers can't afford to give up 70% of their potential revenue.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#472

Post by simion314 »

pjmlp wrote: post #462
simion314 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, except for Fortnite (very popular ) and other apps tha tApple don't like(Hey,Wordpress) or apps that US does not like ,and the apps that indie developers can't afford to publish(small games that have Win,Mac,Linux and Android version) , and maybe GPL(maybe it changed) apps, but except all those apps consumers can get all the apps they want. But can you write me a logical phrase about what should happen if a…

That is exactly what I look for as judge decision. It has been legal since ever, game consoles have 40 years of history by now. And back in the 16 bit days, one would need to pay for SDKs. PCs only became open due to IBM's failure to keep ownership of their creation, and Compaq's cleverness in clean room reverse engineering. Since Windows 8 I am a big fan of Windows store app.

IMO consoles are an historic thing, this days I think if you pay full price to a console then you should have all the rights to unlock it, and if Sony wants to limit me then this should only work if I did not buy the product but I have a subscription for it.

Other giant difference between smartphones and consoles is that smartphones and internet are required for a majority of people (banking, messaging/email, COVID apps, 2FA apps ) I can't tell my bank please make an app for this free OS, or my company please make a 2FA app for this free OS and the reverse the company/bank can tell us "use Android because Apple banned our app because the small bug fix update triggered someone"

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#473

Post by kalleboo »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #262
akira2501 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stop trying to spread the idea that the ability to make apps for the iPhone is an inalienable right. Yes, but neither should Apple have the right to prevent users from using alternative app stores and applications on their own iPhones.

Why should they not have that right? Does Sony not have the right to prevent users from using alternative game stores to run unofficial games on their PS4? Does Nintendo not have the right to prevent users from using an alternative to the eShop to download games for their Switch? Does Tesla not have the right to prevent users from downloading and running whatever random applications they wish on their Tesla?

No they shouldn't.

All computing devices should be free and open.

Stallman was right.

The world is trending toward a corporate-owned hellhole.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#474

Post by kalleboo »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #407
stale2002 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should they not have that right? Because the phone belongs to the consumer, and the courts have already said that it is perfectly legal to jailbreak your phone, even though apple attempted to sue people who were doing this. It is pretty horrible that Apple was trying to sue people, for modifying property that the consumer owned, and it required the courts to get involved, to clarify that it is perfectly legal t…

All products even with ownership come with rules and regulations. Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with. Ownership of an iPhone is not different. It just has special rules attached. If you don’t mind breaking the warranty, please jailbreak your iPhone and install whatever apps you’d prefer.

> Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with.

None of these regulations are decided by the company that manufactured the device, they are all decided democratically by an elected state.

How about...

Houses can't have arbitrary appliances installed that weren't made by someone approved by the house-builder

Cars can't fill up gas from a stand not paying 30% by the car manufacturer

Scissors can't cut paper sold by someone unaffiliated by the scissor manufacturer.

Sounds reasonable to me!

> If you don’t mind breaking the warranty, please jailbreak your iPhone and install whatever apps you’d prefer.

No, Apple wanted jailbreaking to be "go to jail" illegal, not just voiding your warranty.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#475

Post by AlexandrB »

pjmlp wrote: post #371
sunderw wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't a lot of alternatives in the smartphone space. If you don't like Android, you're stuck with Apple. Now if both are abusing their power, using your reasoning, you're supposed to say and do nothing ?

Yes, just like I don't have a say in what the supermarket around the corner decides to sell, besides taking the effort to go somewhere else. Or what goes into each game console, my cable provider installs on their set top box, and so on.

This argument positions corporate policy as some kind of inalienable right. It is not. There are things called laws that, in a democratic society, let us have a say in what the supermarket around the corner decides to sell.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#476

Post by jjcon »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #448
jjcon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am just waiting untill car companies as "platform owners" start preventing you from driving to areas they don't like, or exceeding speed limit. Maybe just don’t buy that car then?

Soon even a washing machine will refuse to wash clothes of non-approved brand for 'safety reasons'. This is not a joke - at university we had attempts to enforce this. And because of people like you constantly defending this madness, we are sleep-walking into a feudal-style tyranny.

Then don’t buy that washing machine... how is this hard to understand?

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#477

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jjcon wrote: post #476
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon even a washing machine will refuse to wash clothes of non-approved brand for 'safety reasons'. This is not a joke - at university we had attempts to enforce this. And because of people like you constantly defending this madness, we are sleep-walking into a feudal-style tyranny.

Then don’t buy that washing machine... how is this hard to understand?

And eventually your only option will be to live in a cave.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#478

Post by pjmlp »

simion314 wrote: post #472
pjmlp wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what I look for as judge decision. It has been legal since ever, game consoles have 40 years of history by now. And back in the 16 bit days, one would need to pay for SDKs. PCs only became open due to IBM's failure to keep ownership of their creation, and Compaq's cleverness in clean room reverse engineering. Since Windows 8 I am a big fan of Windows store app.

IMO consoles are an historic thing, this days I think if you pay full price to a console then you should have all the rights to unlock it, and if Sony wants to limit me then this should only work if I did not buy the product but I have a subscription for it. Other giant difference between smartphones and consoles is that smartphones and internet are required for a majority of people (banking, messaging/email, COVID a…

People can get Internet via other means, and there are plenty of ways to do phone calls.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#479

Post by parasubvert »

sunderw wrote: post #357
parasubvert wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ticketmaster for concerts Scientific journals Vehicle firmware and apps The list goes on. Apple’s policies aren’t monopoly by any historic definition: it’s complaining about commission rates, not about blocking market access, since you always can just pick a different platform. Unless iOS and Android needs to be declared a public utility.

I think you gave very good examples. For me, Ticketmaster and scientific journals abuse their position and there should be laws to prevent that.

I have no problem with new laws to address this behavior.

My disagreement is with the belief that existing anticompetitive laws apply to this situation.

Re: Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages

#480

Post by kalleboo »

rektide wrote: post #456
pjmlp wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it actually contains two game engines: 2D => https://developer.apple.com/spritekit/ 3D => https://developer.apple.com/scenekit/ Alongside lots of other game related goodies, https://developer.apple.com/games/

Some seriously willful ignorance to pretend that a scriptable scenegraph is the same as a game engine. Netcode, entity systems, loading/streaming systems, matchmaking, achievements, level editors, material/shader editors, model editors, physics, particle systems, lighting, sounds, voice chat, plugin libraries/mods,... the game engine of today is a big thing, & well integrated. Second, who would adopt a platform speci…

That's kind of the point. It makes it disingenuous when Apple says "everyone loves our SDKs, they're getting so much value out of them that a 30% cut is a bargain!" when everyone is papering over the APIs with a game engine and would be just as happy with a generic chipset vendor OpenGL ES implementation
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