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Siri, What Time Is It in London?

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Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#471
post #317
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please also take a moment to wish tiny inconveniences upon designers of applications which ignore my locale and present me with "11:06 AM" or worse, "04/05/2020"?

I actually didn't realize am/pm wasn't something Europeans did...

In Greece it's sometimes used.

10:00π.μ. = 10:00 προ μεσημβρίας = 10:00 before noon

10:00μ.μ. = 10:00 μετά μεσημβρίαν = 10:00 after noon

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why on earth Just use your imagination a bit. Maybe I live in state X at location Y while my parents live at location Z in the same state, about 250 miles away from me, maybe there’s a serious storm where I live and I wonder if I need to check on my elderly parents?

But you'd still be in the same time zone, no? For different queries, like the one you mentioned, that might be reasonable, but asking for the time in London means the assistant should infer England's time zone, if you're in Ohio.

Unless you live in a state like Nebraska that spans across multiple time zones…

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you'd still be in the same time zone, no? For different queries, like the one you mentioned, that might be reasonable, but asking for the time in London means the assistant should infer England's time zone, if you're in Ohio.

Unless you live in a state like Nebraska that spans across multiple time zones…

True, there are definitely edge cases to account for. Maybe the problem is these AI assistants are trying to make everything location-aware when that may not always be the desired behavior. If there are ambiguities the assistant could ask you to clarify, but that might make for a worse UX.

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would I be incorrect to assume that something like 17:00 will be understood by literally everyone in the world(if maybe not the preferred format) though? Using AM/PM is worse in a sense that say someone in Poland will literally have no idea which means which. 24 hour clock has no ambiguity. Unless I'm wrong and there are countries or cultures which literally won't understand what time 17:00 is?

There are huge swaths of Americans who will literally not know what 17:00 translates to in AM/PM. And even for the Americans that do know, virtually all of them (unless they are in the military or another profession that commonly uses 24h time), will have to "translate" by subtracting 12 in their head for PM times. 24h time is extremely rare in everyday use in the US.

>subtracting 12 in their head for PM times.

Is that how you're supposed to do it? All my life I've been subtracting 2 and ignoring the fist digit for PM times (with the exception of post 20:00 times). I just noticed that when I was a kid and been using that all this time

e.g. 17:00 - 2:00 = 15:00 => 5:00

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#475
post #75

This example illustrates how difficult AGI is and how far we are from it. We, humans, tend to take advantage of the context to make communication simpler and shorter. Just think about all the implications of this one simple question: what time is it in London? Or e.g. how can I get from London to Dublin? If the person asking the question lives in Ohio, they may actually be talking about London OH (or Dublin OH). Some…

The solution for it is, sadly, more data. So I imagine if Google or Apple can listen, "see" and has access to your every electronic communication do. They could eventually build a model that "knows" everything about you. I am pretty sure we have the technology to do it. But the privacy implications for this is terrifying.

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#476
The problem with these devices is they don't ask for more context, like a human might. Sometimes they use telemetry for context, but most don't seem to keep any memory of previous questions asked.

If Siri asked: did you mean London, Canada or London, England, and then perhaps weighted that response in the future, that would probably end up creating a feedback loop where it would get quite good.

In the case of Siri, Apple has said they are very committed to privacy, and this might preclude this type of solution.

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#477

TBH I always feel amazed about how worked up people get about stuff like this, especially people familiar with software who should know that there are millions, maybe billions of edge cases like this in a generic knowledge system, and thus at least it's easy to make a mistake like this. I mean, the time it took him to write his blog post is probably more than all the times it would take him to follow up with "What ti…

That's actually a pretty typical blog post for this guy. So I'd say it's more like "some people", not just "people".

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#478
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why on earth should someone living in a state specifically ask for the local time in a different location within that same state? Who said they were in that state when asking? People travel.

I find it unlikely that someone in that scenario would ask "What time is it in London?" rather than "What time is it in Ohio?"

I ask for the time in SF or LA all the time, rather than the time in California. Regardless, it's not hard to find cases in the same state that cross timezone boundaries. Cottonwood, AZ vs Cottonwood, AZ 86503 (on Navajo time) is an example.

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#479
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are huge swaths of Americans who will literally not know what 17:00 translates to in AM/PM. And even for the Americans that do know, virtually all of them (unless they are in the military or another profession that commonly uses 24h time), will have to "translate" by subtracting 12 in their head for PM times. 24h time is extremely rare in everyday use in the US.

> 24h time is extremely rare in everyday use in the US. Sure. > There are huge swaths of Americans who will literally not know what 17:00 translates to in AM/PM. 1. Same is true for most people in the world 2. Wait, you mean they don't know if 17:00 is early morning or late afternoon?? Seriously, I have a hard time to believe that. I'll believe that most Americans need to convert to am/pm, but not that "huge swaths"…

Most people in the world? Are you sure about that? I don't believe it for a minute. In India, most people don't know 24 hour timing.

Re: Siri, What Time Is It in London?

#480
The problem here is context. I can’t imagine an algo that would get it correct 100% of the time on the first run. An actual assistant would learn from and adapt to you. Making a mistake is ok but you can’t repeat the mistake over and over. If you meant London, UK you should be able to say: “No Siri, I meant London, UK.” And that would be the last time Siri is wrong here. Sadly, this is not the current state of AI.
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