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Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#471
I hope this isn't controversial, but it's perfectly fine to dislike technology and even avoid it. There are technophiles and there are technophobes. Those who are attracted to technology and those who aren't. Some of us would like to live in London or New York, others want country life. Some of us love surfing and beaches, others climb the mountains.

There are PLENTY of things to dislike about the tech industry. More importantly, there are plenty of things to dislike about YOURSELF inside the tech bubble. So there isn't the right answer what you should or shouldn't do. Listen to yourself and that's your starting point.

I can share my personal experience. Generally speaking, I am a technophobe. I prefer old things that are hard to break. I understand that my dislike for the technology comes from the fact that I become too dependent on it (in multiple ways, including financially). I absolutely HATE this feeling. If you change the focus from 'technology' to 'yourself', you'll probably start understanding what exactly you dislike so much.

Then simply change it.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#472

I wrote nearly this exact message in my mood journal today. I haven't had it quite as bad as the author, but I'm extremely, and it feels like permanently, burned out of working for a business/corporation. I fundamentally hate it. I walked out of my first corporate job after a month and now that I'm on my second, all I can think about is walking out. I hate it. I hate it so much. Every single day feels like I'm ruinin…

it seems like it's really hard to be in that position. that must suck. I feel sorry for your that you're having that experience.

please quit your job. it sounds like otherwise you'll hit a crisis point where life comes in and forces you to make a change (like a real accident) if you feel it so strongly that you're having those feelings and thinking about it all the time please just go ahead and quit. It seems like life is giving you the signs and signals.

I know it's a hard time with work right now but sounds like you have some good support networks around you and from my own experience I can recommend working in small hospitality like the people are cool and when it's busy you get to pass the time, even as a waiter in a cafe or kitchen hand or dishwasher. I recommend against a grocery store unless it's a tiny deli or Bodega because you don't just have to work the cashier you have to pack the shelves and it's less engaging for you as a human than working in hospitality I think.

but at this moment maybe that's not the best suggestion. I don't know how you feel about factory work but I guess it's an option anyway best of luck please quit.

you got to honor how you feel about it right? otherwise who else is going to live your life if you don't.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#473
I think the biggest problem is all the enthusiasm / money / speculation around every piece of “tech” being the next “big thing”

I’m wondering this for you and myself:

could you be happy and fulfilled letting go of the “tech” dream, and instead focus simply on solving problems for people we care about with people we care about?

Maybe some solutions use software maybe some use rope. Who cares with what.. are the people better off?

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#474
I'm not sure if its the internet which allows us to think more/faster and more global but i do have the general thought that a ton of things we do as humans is not worth while doing.

I would love to start today stopping capitalism and inventing a new system which optimizes for life stability, good food, travel, piece, sustainability and time with others.

Instead we optimize for revenue, growth and because everyone thinks they can do it better, they have the business idea, everyone likes to earn money.

Whats my conclusion? I try to optimze my work by making sure i control certain aspects, do what i think i enjoy and is more or less useful. But my goal is to stop working with 50 or so.

Funny enough, your story is strange though, you probably did not create your startup because you thought you would change the world, did you? Or did you do it because you thought its life fullfilling, it earns you respect and money?

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#475

I spent 17 years going through that. I can't say I recovered my optimism, but I stopped being cynical and am now realistic (which people tend to think is pessimistic), but without it being negative. Get off the drugs, move into the country and eat a lot of peaches. Technology will never be enjoyable again, and that's a good thing. Grow your own food, make your own tools, build your own furniture. Use your intelligenc…

And skip the middle man and build your own software product. Then there will be more sane software companies to work for.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#476
post #94

Most of your problems sound like they stemmed from VC. Similar story. It's a good, and hard, lesson. Two things one should not touch when it comes to building healthy companies in 2020: crypto and equity sales to VC. They're going to become fossils soon anyhow [1]. Read Rework by Basecamp. Read The Beginning of Infinity by Deutch. Read the Art of Doing Science and Engineering by Hamming. Watch some Bret Victor talks.…

> Most importantly, know that the future is bright and that our best days are not only ahead of us, but always will be. I've read (and watched) everything on your list of recommendations. Perhaps I should reread Deutch's chapter on optimism, but I don't have the same conviction that you do. Where does your conviction come from?

What you're looking for is probably not conviction.

Conviction comes from seeing the state of things not being right and seeing a vision of what the state of things being right looks like.

If you don't have conviction, you probably don't have a vision of the state of things being right. That's why most of the world doesn't have conviction - either they lack vision on how the world should be, or their vision of how the world should be lacks the element of being visionary.

I would ascribe 3 things for you to consider:

1) You sound similar to someone who got cheated on and can't date again. You probably need some help handling emotions like betrayal.

2) Betrayal is really difficult to get over and (sorry to say) but you may never really get back to normal. This is the inner psychologist talking, sometimes wounds leave scars that don't fade.

3) If you can't survive an environment with politics and betrayal (which is good, it means you have a simple and pure heart), you will have to live with the fact that your mission is probably not found in the business world.

4) There are many missions out there. Find the one that resonates with your personal values. OR, surround yourself with people that resonate with your values, and take on their mission.

I don't think it's good to go back to what killed your inner child. That reminds me of being in an abusive relationship.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#477
I've been thinking about why so many software developers feel this way, and among other things tried to explicitly distinguish[1] between three activities:

1. Programming

2. Coding

3. Software engineering

I had defined them as follows:

1. Programming is solving explicit problems in a verifiable manner.

2. Coding is expressing a programming solution in a formal language.

3. Software engineering is building a product for the real world.

I believe most of us here (and the OP) have this kind of relationship with the three, best case scenario:

1. Love programming.

2. Enjoy coding.

3. Tolerate software engineering.

Burnout, depression and disillusionment rarely come from 1 (pure, strict math world), might occasionally come from 2 ("bad" languages, "messy" frameworks, etc), but generally comes from 3 (business, politics, communication, value, finance).

Perhaps, it's a good idea to pinpoint the intrinsic "passion" (whatever you wanna call it) and differentiate it with accidental complexity of the real world.

(edit: formatting)

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1. https://rakhim.org/2019/11/coding-vs-dot-programming-vs-dot-...

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#478
@mGBUfLn9, you point your finger in every directions but your own. There is one sentence where you pretend to do so, but you ever so quickly declare yourself not guilty.

"I lost many friends." That was entirely your choice. On a daily and hourly basis you chose striking it rich or satisfying your vainglory over people and relationships. You could have chosen to do this software as a side project, or via slow bootstrap, sans the shark investors. You didn't.

"But I can sleep at night fine. So I eventually decided it's mostly nobody's fault," then "hang out with my non-techy friends and my wife". Clearly you haven't put two and two together.

Let me guess: Your startup's business model was based on selling advertising, selling data on its users, and/or exploiting people in the "gig economy". Yet it's only your investors that you call "bloodthirsty vultures".

You blame everyone but yourself for becoming "soulless". Your very use of this word reveals a great lack of soul. You misuse it to describe working like a machine, an automaton. The nurse who is working like a machine to save lives at great risk to her own has the most wonderful, beautiful soul. What makes you soulless is that you're only thinking about yourself and "new products" (ways to make money) without any hint of a conscience troubled by the decisions made and actions taken in pursuit of those profits, and what that says about who you are. Or maybe the depression was a conscience trying hard to speak out, but it got snuffed by drugs rather than getting heard.

You can't "see past the cynicism" when you are the cynicism.

Spend less time figuring how much you can get and more time one what you can give. Ditch your transactional mindset. Give for giving's sake. Use your talents to make the world better, fuck the profits. Chose the more moral job over the more profitable one. The people you'll work with in those jobs will have lots of soul and it will rub off on you.

---

[I know this post will not be well received here on Hacker News, the techie Twitter. It's like walking into a church in the middle of Sunday service and to rail against organized religion and the hypocrisy of the worshipers.]

https://gist.github.com/mGBUfLn9/7cadffcf7c3c23b7376350165a6...

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#479
You get back the joy of building things by building things. Something that worked for me when I was in similar situation was working on some Arduiono projects. It's not only programming, you are making something in the physical world as well. The projects are usually simple and small, you don't get burned out. The actual programming is pretty simple - you don't need design patterns, some heavy framework or functional programming to make few LEDs blink or a motor to spin back and forth.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate to a lot of the things you've stated. I won't get into the specifics but I understand your experience of working at a tech giant. In my case, I decided to try to "play the game" for a while. After a few years, I realized clout, money, and the things it afforded were ultimately meaningless to me. Things like mentoring young engineers, hobbies, and organizing local student hackathons definitely took the ed…

Something I've always wondered about that maybe you could help me with. What does it mean to say that "Jesus died for our sins"?

Happy to help man --

We were all born spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1-3)

When we're dead spiritually, we're disconnected from the presence of God because of our sins.

Jesus' sacrifice made it possible to be brought back to spiritual life. By believing in Him, He wipes our sins clean. This is what it means to be saved :) (John 3:16)

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