Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you have ever been in a situation where things were done to a standard of excellence, this type of excuse is simply unacceptable. People who have first-hand experience with environments that pursue excellence in earnest have little patience for such nonsense. Kind of like the movie line "Failure is not an option." The line involves a bit of creative license, but was based on the movie people interviewing someone f…
I wasn’t implying that it was ok... just that it might not be the hiring managers doing the ignoring.
The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
471–480 of 851 posts
Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally I'd call off the interview and let them know they need to rethink their hiring practices. If that's how they interview the company probably is horrible to work for anyways.
I believe this is becoming more common.
Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
100k then would be 170k today, in line with (if not slightly lower than) entry level comp at FANG companies.
That's a TC number that includes vesting RSU right?
Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#474In addition to all of the very dystopian examples given in this post, there are other non-technical, super-dystopian things that have been popping up as "trends" in the tech industry. Ever heard of top-grading? It's the most oppressive interview technique of all time. A series of grueling multi-person interviews. A retrospective of all work experiences since high school . You also have to get multiple prior employers…
My experience as both a 50+ hiring manager and as a candidate tells me that we are collectively living in an illusion of whacked up expectations. Yes, it's super hard to hire good people, but most of the time it's because "good enough" isn't good enough anymore, and while we may think our company is a 9 and we deserve 9s, we are probably more of a 4 based on what people are actually working on. Yes, interviews suck,…
Applicant: 600,000 golf balls
Recruiter: What about a coffee?
Applicant: Because the man hole is round
> I hope we can find a bit more maturity in our industry
Me too
Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
One thing to note about coding interviews, they're very simular to somone looking over your shoulder while you're working. Nobody can perform well like that.. One great colleague who I wish I was in the interview for, simple started thinking out loud. Everything he was thinking, he said out loud, and of course, the team loved it. Because thats all it's about. If its not over a video chat/submission, comment your code…
So I had an interview that was like that, but I wasn’t given enough information. I was asked to implement the “inverse square law in code” ... and I explained to the interviewer who was two years out of college (I looked up all of the interviewers on linkedin, so I had a good idea of their experience and areas of expertise) that my first step as someone who hadn’t been in an academic environment or exposed to this ki…
Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#476And so many people have rehashed over and over their positions. I did, and I will do it again today.
Tech booming just happened pretty recently. People are going from law and finance and medicine to software in droves. Though it is arguably that those people better stick with law, finance or medicine than software, the fact is that software field has lower barrier of entry, from socio-economic/financial point of view and artificial gatekeeping point of view. Majority of people just don't have the resources to study law, finance or medicine.
We have a gold rush, and majority of people want to improve their life, with the least amount of effort/barrier possible.
This result in new supplies of software engineers, whether from graduating bootcamp or graduating CS degree. All of these engineers are of varying quality. Let's not talk about the older experienced software engineers, because I think it is safe to point out the fact that older more experienced software engineers are of better quality in general.
So now, we have massive influx of newbie/junior software engineering candidates. How do companies realistically interview all of them? Knowing that these people graduated with varying degree of skills/quality.
If the majority of the workforce are older experienced software engineers of good quality, then companies won't have this filtering problem. They can just give interviews by talking from previous projects/referral and call it a day.
But now we have this DS&A and take home test as well, because interviewing is hard, and the more candidates out there the harder it becomes.
I am about 5 years into my career in this, and did interviews at a few companies and also FAANG. I experienced take home tests, work for a day, and DS&A. And I choose DS&A every single time because the other two sucks.
I don't have that many projects, or even side projects that I can be proud of. I love doing hard tutorial such as learning how to do compilers rather than doing some projects. All my github is filled with trash/throwaway code. And for some reason I always got involved with projects that ended up being throwaways in my previous companies, because those projects were generally hard problems.
Work for a day, take home tests, those two are a waste of time in my opinion. I can't do multiple of them and get competing offers. But with DS&A I can just learn once and do it multiple times and get multiple competing offers. Not to mention that I won't have to compete with more senior engineers that are obviously more capable than me. By doing this DS&A game I already filtered myself up for better.
Besides, I hate learning about framework this, framework that, technology this, technology that, multiple times. It gets old quick. Don't get me wrong, I love learning new stuffs, but too many of those and I just spin around in circles learning the next Javascript framework flavor of the month. I'd rather be interviewed about how to do recursion than being interviewed about the nitty gritty of React vs Angular, Express vs Koa, etc etc etc.
In general I favor DS&A interviews. For those of you who are more senior than me. Please don't do DS&A. Please stick with what works for you. If competent people like you start doing DS&A and be good at it, then what are the chances of people like me, or other non senior engineers for getting a job. If you think I'm being sarcastic, believe me, I am not. I truly believe there are people out there that can code in circles around me despite me knowing how to recursively generate a permutation.
In general I have success in interviewing at non FAANG/Unicorn companies. I usually finished those coding challenges in 10-15 mins, and the rest 30 mins I just talk to them about random stuff and they ask me about previous project, culture, etc.
However, I still haven't found success in FAANG companies. I still got rejected, despite having solved 300+ Leetcode questions. And yes I know people who solved 500+ and still got rejected.
Now that brings me to the things that bother me the most. I've seen, as many of the commenters here, that there are people who got in despite not doing any preparation at all. I thought at first those were lies, until I saw it myself, and not just once, but twice, three, and now four times. Everytime I heard these stories it demoralized me.
I've seen people who got into L3, L4, E4, without knowing how to reverse a binary tree or do a simple BFS/DFS.
Why? What am I doing wrong? What are they doing right?
p.s. Don't ask me why I want to work for FAANG. I need (not just want) the money. I have people that I support.
Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sigh. They aren't asking you the question because they expect you to write an in-memory data structure library. They are asking you this question because they want to know that you can reason about systems with subtle behavior, and a binary tree is one such system that most programmers learn about in school. So if you refuse to engage, they'll have no evidence from you about your ability to write subtle code of any k…
Isn’t it up to the interviewer to ask a useful question? This is exactly how I would find the kth item of a search tree. I don’t feel like that is refusal to engage. Is the question is more like “describe various approaches to the designs of search trees and their iterators, and discuss the time/space complexity of a few examples” then that’s a different question.
I mean, I can't speak to the thinking of the original interviewer, but this is what I'm looking for with that sort of question. And I don't see how a binary tree is a bad choice. Again, it's something that everyone sees in school, so it doesn't require a ton of description in the interview.
I guess I put the question back to you: if you won't write a binary tree traversal in an interview, what subtle code would you be willing to demonstrate? And why is that better than a binary tree?
Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
100k then would be 170k today, in line with (if not slightly lower than) entry level comp at FANG companies.
That's a TC number that includes vesting RSU right?
Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#479Re: The dystopian world of software engineering interviews
#480It used to be people took care in small gestures like wearing a pressed shirt but now all the auspices have gone awry in favour of this laughable meritocracy
No wonder tests of this nature have been devised by people who haven't ever buttoned a collar and it's everyone's fault for not taking the moral high ground
When's the last time you walked into a formal interview that actually was formal?
Casual guys in a jizzing contest over O(logn) implementations of tree traversal is the reason every start-up fails after 18 months