Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused • Hacker News Board

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#471

Post by vineyardmike » Wed, Jan 01, 2020, 5:25 AM UTC

windexh8er wrote: post #466

vineyardmike wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sonos has never EOL'ed or feature handicapped a speaker yet. It doesn't seem like something they're keen to do.

While your argument may be technically true with regard to speakers Sonos has EoL'd product [0]. It's only a matter of time. The problem with SaaS reliant hardware is very few vendors make the effort to support products long term (>7 years). [0] https://www.techradar.com/news/sonos-finally-kills-off-cr100...

I wholy agree that it is a concern, especially from smaller/unprofitable companies/google (sonos thankfully is none of those). Just look at the Revolv hub and it's nest aquisition.

Based on the language used online from sonos, this whole recycle mode seems to be to pay users to give up old hardware so they can EOL'd it without leaving users with useless hardware.

If a company wants to EOL hardware, paying users to give it up seems to be an ethical way to do it (from a consumer perspective, if not a environmental one)

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#472

Post by DanBC » Wed, Jan 01, 2020, 5:53 AM UTC

pms wrote: post #453

sm4rk0 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not forced to take the incentive. You can always sell the device on a second hand market and get more money than that incentive.

Haven't you noticed that the word "recycle" is used here in the exactly opposite way than it should be? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/recycle This is purposeful marketing misinformation. The goal here is to incentivize a naive customer, apparently including you, to make their devices non-reusable and to buy new devices. This has nothing to do with recycling, yet Sonos purposefully uses this word, because…

> Haven't you noticed that the word "recycle" is used here in the exactly opposite way than it should be?

You've said this a few times, but I don't understand what you're trying to say.

In your dictionary definition I guess you're referring to item 3, but that's already given an alternative which is "re-use".

When talking about environmental waste the word "recycle" does not include "reuse", which is why the slogan is "reduce, reuse, recycle". When talking about waste the word reuse is distinct from recycle. https://www.buschsystems.com/resource-center/knowledgeBase/g...

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#473

Post by majani » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 10:36 AM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #7

Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it. You have to keep paying them for using your own property or else they remotely brick the device. First gen Ipods were a prime example, but now everybody seem to want to do the same. We recently had a prospective client who had an idea of very cheap intern…

This is where the investor backed audio companies are going. There will always be independent companies that don't have huge financial pressures that will be willing to sell complete devices at a one time fee

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#474

Post by greyhair » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

I wish they would sell them at a reduced price just as powered speakers, to people that would just like to use them as powered speakers. No support provided, just a website where you could click and order.

There are a number of people that would be more than happy and able to repurpose an old Sonus speaker that no longer operated as a Sonus speaker.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#475

Post by greyhair » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

bathtub365 wrote: post #188

jacquesm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem right there, for a hardware manufacturer post shipping there shouldn't be a server.

They run a routing/cross-auth system so you can stream from other IP-based audio services directly to your speakers. They aren’t entirely a hardware company and those integrations are a value-add for a lot of consumers. I think you should be able to run them in some kind of offline mode, though.

Logitech Squeeze players also had Squeeze network, which cost nothing, and is still in service today.

You can put a DAC on a RPi, install squeezeplayer, and attach to the squeeze network for free today. I have done that exact thing in the last six months.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#476

Post by greyhair » Thu, Jan 02, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

jjav wrote: post #462

kodachi wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be great if you could use your own server, and that the server code was open.

That's why I stick with the squeezebox ecosystem. Open source server which runs locally. The hardware is long since discontinued (but plentiful and easily available on craigslist etc) and it can never be obsoleted as everything runs locally.

Plus Squeeze Network (still free, still working) for Pandora, Spotify, or other network services.

Have you tried squeezeplayer on a RPi with a DAC? It works great. I have one alongside my original Squuezebox. They sync perfectly for multiroom audio.

With a DAC, it runs fine on a Zero. Cheap.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#477

Post by armandhammer » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 1:56 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #98

reeddavid wrote: post #23

What a total waste. Apparel companies are starting to participate in the secondary market for their used gear, why can't Sonos do something similar? Examples: - Patagonia Worn Wear ( https://wornwear.patagonia.com ) - REI Used Gear ( https://www.rei.com/used/shop/gear ) - Arc'teryx Rock Solid ( https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com ) As it stands, Sonos is effectively buying their old speakers and then throwing them away. C…

Wonder how long these apparel companies will keep it up. I remember reading not so long ago that some well-known clothes companies realized that people are interested in buying used high-quality clothes, and so they started manufacturing new clothes using worse materials and process but to the same design as quality ones, and then sell these fake-used clothes as "worn".

Isn't that basically the "Outlet Store" model? New clothes made to lower standards but ostensibly sold under the illusion of being "last season's overstock" of the high quality normal version?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#478

Post by secabeen » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #235

TeMPOraL wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stream audio from streaming services, which have APIs that change regularly, and require some level of DRM and subscription management That's a good point and it makes it even more important to push back - abusive, customer-hostile business models don't just affect the direct customers, they spread and infect everything downstream.

Sonos is a particularly horrible company though, with software particularly hostile to end-users. There are many cases where they actively prevent you from using the device that you bought. When a software update becomes available, you can no longer use the Sonos app or connect to a Sonos device, making the device essentially unusable, until you update your software. When Sonos, for example, changes their Terms of Se…

> They require ridiculous access to personal information like location [2].

I know I'm late on this, but both Android and iOS require location permission to get any access to WiFi scans or AP MAC address data. Sonos software scans to discover new devices, and that scan requires those permissions. If you can get a list of nearby APs, you can use the skyhook database to discern location. Thus, location permission is required in order to setup new devices.