Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

troyhunt.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 509 posts

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#471

Post by droithomme »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #328
jrochkind1 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, even though the _only_ user-tracking we do where I work is Google Analytics (no advertising features) (and you say your lawyers say you don't need consent for that) -- the official word on high where I work is all our websites need the stupid "i consent to cookies" banner if we use cookies. So, yeah, it's a mess. These "extra" warnings are contributing to user fatigue, I agree with troy hunt that users are…

That’s more the fault of the higher ups for not understanding the law correctly, which really, is on them because the EU went to quite a bit of length to make the document readable and if execs/managers aren’t smart enough to know the difference between necessary and tracking cookies on their own site, then that’s really their own fault.

> the EU went to quite a bit of length to make the document readable

It's 88 pages of legalese consisting of 99 articles distributed over 13 chapters. It also has dozens of footnotes which incorporate thousands of pages of other laws by reference.

> and if execs/managers aren’t smart enough

Clearly I am too stupid to operate a business and have reading comprehension problems. Thanks for letting me know.

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#472

Post by Grumbledour »

lmkg wrote: post #469
flukus wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, even though the _only_ user-tracking we do where I work is Google Analytics (no advertising features) (and you say your lawyers say you don't need consent for that) -- the official word on high where I work is all our websites need the stupid "i consent to cookies" banner if we use cookies. Google analytics feeds tracking data to google for advertising purposes and tracks you across sites, it's exactly t…

> Google analytics feeds tracking data to google for advertising purposes and tracks you across sites That is why GP said "(no advertising features)." That is the name of the feature in GA that does that, and it can be disabled.

However, google is still a third party and I would argue this is not legal, as is using google maps or other external entities known to employ excessive tracking unless you have special data protection contracts with said entity.

But I also understand the law, that anonymous user statistics are just fine and don't need consent as long as you retain the data yourself and of course mention it in your privacy policy. Though you might still be obligated to respect "do not track" and adding an opt-out setting.

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#473

Post by rmc »

> Is this really what we want? To continue chucking up cookie warnings to everyone and somehow expecting them to make an informed decision about the risks they present? 99% of people are going to click through them anyway (note: this is a purely fabricated figure based on the common-sense assumption that people will generally click through anything that gets in the way of performing the task they set out to complete in the first place). And honestly, how on earth is your average person going to make an informed decision on a message like this:

I think the logic is "Yes, you're right, many regular people can't make freely informed consent for that sort of mass tracking... so the solution is to stop tracking people"

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#474

Post by rmc »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #219
DavideNL wrote: post #128

In The Netherlands the Data Protection Authority announced this month that websites are no longer allowed to block access when people click "NO" in the cookie warning; Clicking 'no' should still allow people to view the website, but without placing any tracking cookies. Source (in Dutch): https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/nl/nieuws/websites-moe...

Hmm, there are features that one literally can't provide without state (cookies). I think the real problem here is that the technical feature of cookies providing browser state is a poor proxy for what EU/DPA _really_ wants to regulate, which is privacy-related tracking. There are tons of sites I've written which use cookies, but have no ads and perform no user-tracking whatsoever, not even Google Analytics. It is tr…

There are many legal reasons for processing personal data. Consent is one, and that's what all this is about.

"Legitimate reasons" is another. You can process personal data (use cookies) under that reason, and you don't need to ask for consent.

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#475

Post by rmc »

plopz wrote: post #192
probably_wrong wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Websites are allowed to charge you. They are also allowed to show (non-tracking) ads, and they can also track you if you agree to it. What is not allowed is to withdraw services to those that want to exercise their right to privacy.

Thanks, this helps clear up some of my understanding. I still think its ridiculous that websites can't refuse to serve who they want.

There's been laws about that sort of thing for decades. A business can no longer refuse to serve black people. So we, as a society, are using that logic.

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#476

Post by rmc »

cortesoft wrote: post #257
nothal wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's relatively common for governments to prohibit businesses and services from discriminating against certain types of users, why do you think it's ridiculous in this specific case?

Whether we like it or not, tracking data used for ads is the currency of the free internet. It is how things are paid for. This is like a government saying to a restaurant "You can't discriminate against people who don't want to pay you money for the food. You can ask them if they are willing to give you money for the sandwich, but if they say no, you still have to give them the sandwich"

> Whether we like it or not, tracking data used for ads is the currency of the free internet. It is how things are paid for.

You're right, it's the currency now. It would be great if it wasn't. If there was some way to force the industry to come up with new, non-privacy-invasive methods... Hey maybe if we made a law to ban the old, bad, way....

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#477

Post by rmc »

fixermark wrote: post #10
weinzierl wrote: post #2

To add insult to injury the big players with most trackers just refuse to show the cookie warnings at all. At least that's the situation Germany where most major news outlets are full of ads and trackers and handle all of it via opt-out(!) in the privacy policy. For a example see spiegel.de, the most widely read German-language news website. It's mostly small and medium sized firms that show the cookie warning out of…

Anyone who didn't see this as the predictable end-result of requiring cookie awareness and consent was hopelessly naive about how large vs. small organizations respond to unfunded government mandates. The money and time could have been a lot better spent on international awareness campaigns arming consumers with more privacy knowledge instead of expecting website owners to shoulder the informational burden (because t…

"The market is the solution". Er nope.

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#478

Post by tomjen3 »

cortesoft wrote: post #259
josephg wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes absolutely! Websites need to find revenue models that don’t depend on violating the privacy of their users. That stance makes a lot of sense to me.

There are tons of websites that have other revenue models. Subscriptions, referral models, etc. Shouldn't people be able to choose what currency they want to pay for something in?

That is what Washington post does, I think. You can agree to tracking or pay money.

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#479

Post by dmitriid »

kmlx wrote: post #470
dmitriid wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put: when we learn that NSA secretly spies on everyone, it's a huge scandal that calls government practices into question. When it's ~300 tracking companies per website, it's "how does this impact you"? ;)

the US government can literally take your life, imprison you, etc. techcrunch just wants to sell you stuff. there’s really no comparison.

So, the arbitrary line is drawn at “someone can imprison you”.

And no, it’s not TechCrunch who’s getting all that data.

Re: Cookie Warning Shenanigans Have Got to Stop

#480

Post by duxup »

mikeash wrote: post #291
duxup wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't really see it as "what we couldn't do" but "what poor usability we have overcome". I'm glad we have cookies and other forms of local storage, especially for the latter there are many other benefits. Maybe one day we'll get Web SQL. Yeah I think that's accurate. It's a little weird sometimes reading all these articles about cookies, JavaScript, etc and I always think "But I use those things to ... give people…

90% of web developers give the rest of you a bad name.

I really wonder if it is more 90% of really visible things give a bad name.

Most just do stuff nobody sees at any volume.

Post reply on HN