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Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

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Re: Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

#471

Post by panarky »

JonnyNova wrote: post #451
panarky wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...A bubble, Galbraith observed ... Counterpoint: Galbraith confidently called the US stock market a "classic bubble" in April, 1999. At that time, the Dow Jones was at 10,494. Today it's at 24,504. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, it now looks like Galbraith was wrong. Source: https://www.theguardian.com/business/1999/apr/18/observerbus... > Assets need to be productive in order to be true investments Counterpoi…

> > ...A bubble, Galbraith observed ... > Counterpoint: Galbraith confidently called the US stock market a "classic bubble" in April, 1999. At that time, the Dow Jones was at 10,494. Today it's at 24,504. No! Current day valuation versus 1999 valuation has nothing to do with each other. In 1999 the market was over valued and the bubble soon popped. > > Assets need to be productive in order to be true investments > Co…

> In 1999 the market was over valued and the bubble soon popped.

Here's a chart of the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Please identify this bubble popping that you speak of.

https://imgur.com/a/4et6w

After 18 years we can say that Galbraith was objectively wrong.

When assets appear overvalued, sometimes they are, and sometimes people just don't see their potential at the time.

Re: Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

#472

Post by Frogolocalypse »

arcticfox wrote: post #311
zMiller wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely right. Again my comment was directed at : > People who call Bitcoin a 'Ponzi scheme' , type of plant or apply whatever reduction on a very complex and innovative product. Not at the one's who are raising very valid red flags on valuation and how hot the market is becoming. In my personal opinion it is absolutely 'bubble' like behavior right now. And i believe we both echo the same sentiment.

> a very complex and innovative product. The main point here is that there's absolutely nothing innovative about BTC anymore, if anything it's way behind. Which is why the valuation is so suspect; it's totally disconnected from the utility BTC provides compared to alts. Anything BTC does, alts do better, except for marketing.

> The main point here is that there's absolutely nothing innovative about BTC anymore

That demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of what makes bitcoin valuable, and what separates it from all other competitors. Bitcoin node decentralization is what keeps it censorship resistant, and in bitcoin node decentralization, it is ahead of any and all competitors. It likely has more fully validating nodes than all other cryptos combined, and by some margin.

There are a lot of people that want to sell you on a great new thing. Until they can get 150,000+ fully validating nodes to support their technology, they will be nothing more than a mildly distributed inefficient database. What is innovative about bitcoin is that it is the only real cryptocurrency, because it is the only one that isn't controlled directly by its creators, and also maintains its decentralization. The only ones that are even close are ethereum and litecoin, and ethereum is beholden to a single person who dictates changes to the network. Litecoin is simply a clone of bitcoin with minor changes to its implementation, but has a fraction of the fully validating nodes.

Re: Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

#473

Post by Mtinie »

matchagaucho wrote: post #339
charlesdm wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it is a bubble, that doesn't mean it can't go another 20x from here, depending which crypto you put your money in. There's cheap liquidity (ho ho ho said the FED and the ECB), there are institutions (pension funds) that are starting to buy in, and in comparison, the dot-com bubble (which was mainly a US led bubble, not global) went to $5.7tn to $1.7tn. Gold is worth $8tn globally. Why couldn't Bitcoin get to…

Gold is worth $8tn globally Drawing comparisons between gold and a fiat currency (BTC) is completely confusing.

“Fiat” usually implies something different from the way you are using it. No government has issued Bitcoin via fiat, there are no treasuries or armies backing it.

Gold is a tangible commodity. I’ve been in the cryptoasset space for a while and I’m still not exactly sure how to cleanly classify it.

Re: Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

#474

Post by wallace_f »

JonnyNova wrote: post #439
CPLX wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin doesn't have fundamentals. Stocks are a claim on assets, buildings, inventories, and future profits. Real shit, like a parking lot full of trucks or something. Those are the fundamentals. Cryptocurrencies dont have anything like that. To the extent that there is an analogous concept it's their utility as a means of exchange. Which outside of drugs and hard drive ransoms is minuscule at best.

Bitcoin has fundamentals though. Per the whitepaper it was designed to be just a means for individuals to transfer money to each other digitally without much friction. The further it gets from that the more we're asking the network to stretch to meet demands it was never designed to.

And looking at this fundamental value, other cryptocurrencies have arguable superceded it in terms of better tech/efficiency, so the value seems incredibly hard to justify.

Re: Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

#475

Post by johnwheeler »

panarky wrote: post #471
JonnyNova wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > ...A bubble, Galbraith observed ... > Counterpoint: Galbraith confidently called the US stock market a "classic bubble" in April, 1999. At that time, the Dow Jones was at 10,494. Today it's at 24,504. No! Current day valuation versus 1999 valuation has nothing to do with each other. In 1999 the market was over valued and the bubble soon popped. > > Assets need to be productive in order to be true investments > Co…

> In 1999 the market was over valued and the bubble soon popped. Here's a chart of the Dow Jones Industrial Average. Please identify this bubble popping that you speak of. https://imgur.com/a/4et6w After 18 years we can say that Galbraith was objectively wrong. When assets appear overvalued, sometimes they are, and sometimes people just don't see their potential at the time.

This is ridiculous. By that measure, the Great Depression never happened.

Re: Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

#478

Post by TheCoelacanth »

zMiller wrote: post #150

This thread's audience is obviously a 'developed nations' one. From our perspective yes, Crytpo's use case as currency make absolutely no sense (yet), we tap our Visa card to pay instantly with no fees and no fraud liability, hard to beat. As a store of value however there is a very strong use case in the western world. Of the top my head, it is estimated that 10% of our GDP is in off shore havens, think about that i…

It seems to me like bitcoin is more comparable to a wire transfer than to the other forms . Like a wire transfer, but unlike nearly every other form of digital payment (credit card, debit card, ACH), it is irrevocable. It's fees are also competitive with the $20+ that sending a wire transfer will cost.

That would make it something of a niche form of payment compared to say credit cards. You aren't going to use it to pay for a cup of coffee, but there still are trillions of dollars worth of wire transfers per day. That is roughly one thousand times the amount currently transacted per day in bitcoin at the current valuation so even taking over a tiny portion of the wire transfer market would justify bitcoin's current valuation.

Re: Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

#479

Post by [deleted] »

DINKDINK wrote: post #367
joe_the_user wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average "unbanked" person in a third world nation couldn't afford a $20 transaction fee for their ordinary transactions. But bitcoin certainly looks like a way for some portion of this group to protect their capital since it's not controlled by states want capital controls. Of course, there's a reason third world countries want capital controls - a lot of the people seeking to export capital are corrupt non-ownin…

>The average "unbanked" person in a third world nation couldn't afford a $20 transaction fee for their ordinary transactions. Someone in a country, who has the equivalent of $800 is life savings, is experiencing hyperinflation (Venezuela let's say). Are you telling me that they're not willing to pay 2.5% (20/800) of their savings to save 97.5% of it? Why do you think someone would be willing to let hyperinflation des…

[deleted]

Re: Litecoin and Ethereum buys and sells are temporarily disabled

#480

Post by TheCoelacanth »

tomkarlo wrote: post #360
zMiller wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. Use as currency for Bitcoin (and other coin networks) is still in it's infancy and cannot scale the way it needs to should it want to replace fiat. The important distinction I would draw though that stores of value have historically been cumbersome to transport and liquidate, Bitcoin solves that problem in a very good way. I feel it's important to also address this 20$ bitcoin fee meme that seems to be going…

"Single dollars" is still a nosebleed-high fee for a simple electronic value transfer. Consider that pricing on something like an ach transfer is quoted in fractions of a percent (so like 75 cents for $100 USD sent - and caps out entirely at some low value like $5 per transaction regardless of the payment size.

There are cheaper forms of transfer, yes, but there are also much more expensive forms of transfer. A wire transfer will cost you $25 or more and yet there are still millions of them sent per day.
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