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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

susanjfowler.com

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#471

Post by lowbloodsugar »

uber_031917 wrote: post #172

Uber employee here. This was a disheartening story to read to say the least. I hope that she sues as her case is abundantly clear and the response by HR and the management chain was absolutely unacceptable. If what happened is true, they should be held accountable. Unfortunately, from my perspective, Uber has a track record of lack of accountability when it comes to leadership/managers. Pretty much everyone I know at…

So basically, your price for overlooking systemic misogyny is "working with talented people on interesting problems"? Is uber the only place where you can work with talented people on interesting problems? On ride-sharing?

These assholes can't get rich without you. Someone is going to win in this space. Why would you help it be them?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#472

Post by lg »

revelation wrote: post #128
shruubi wrote: post #42

As someone who is Australian and not American, if anything like this happened and HR failed in the trainwreck like manner that they did in this story, we have a government organisation that oversees and enforces workplace legislation. It seems insane to me that the only recourse you have after HR is basically "gather evidence and sue" which seems to be common advice in this thread.

You can't sue, there is likely a mandatory arbitration clause in the employment contract (because why not, it's free) and it applies to everything .

you can't sue. but you can file charges with the EEOC, and if they want to they can sue on your behalf.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#473

Post by weberc2 »

grey-area wrote: post #281
ChuckMcM wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Top engineers were being poached from Google/FB and these people > were trying to carve out territory in a quickly growing engineering > team. It is always a bit sad when one of the top characteristic of an engineer from organization X is their political ability to carve out an empire. I'm a bit surprised she doesn't have at least one law firm trying to get her to be the lead claimant in a class action lawsuit. See…

I'm a bit surprised so many people want to give her advice. She's already taken a really bold step and written cogently and in a balanced way about her situation, the toxic culture at Uber, and made it clear she's moved on to a better place. Why talk about what she should be doing and hasn't done as if there is only one way to resolve this? Why not give thanks to the writer for writing this and putting up with all th…

I'm confused by your comment. How does it fit with the parent comment? Your comment doesn't seem to make sense as either agreeing with the parent comment (as it nothing about giving advice) nor does it seem to contradict the parent comment (which isn't giving advice or giving Uber some kind of pass). Could you clarify?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#474

Post by flootch »

uber_eng_throw wrote: post #137
logandavis wrote: post #69

By all indications, Uber has a toxic work culture that costs them both top talent and organizational velocity. I'm a college senior at a well-regarded engineering school. My CS classmates - especially women - simply do not apply to Uber, in large part because of its reputation for internal misogyny and general assholery. Four classmates interned there last summer, and as far as I know none are interested in returning…

Hijacking this top comment to provide some personal experiences. I started as an engineer in the spring of 2014 and this was definitely the case there. Top engineers were being poached from Google/FB and these people were trying to carve out territory in a quickly growing engineering team. The misogynistic culture, in my mind, comes from most of the early employees being former frat bros. Culture was extremely heavy…

Did any of you folks talk about the enormously unethical ways you treat drivers? Those folks who are mostly poorer than you who do the actual work that provides value?

I find it laughable to hear Uber engineers cry about how unfairly Kalanick treats them.

Self-awareness 0.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#475

Post by shalmanese »

tyingq wrote: post #390
bifocald wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Culture is CEO's responsibility. Period.

The story got picked up by the Verge, and there's a response from Uber's CEO... http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/19/14664474/uber-sexism-alleg...

https://youtu.be/SjbPi00k_ME?t=10

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#476

Post by throwaway1892 »

wheelerwj wrote: post #361
santaclaus wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no such thing. Works at a bar or brewery? Wine related startup? Sales?

none of those are any more pro drinking on the job culture than any other job. you still have work to do, and you probably still have colleagues whose time is valuable that aren't as big on drinking as you think they are. drinking and having fun is great. at my company, if i wanted us all to drink, everyone got the afternoon off and we went out.

He did said that the drinking was done outside of work hours.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#477

Post by lazyasciiart »

School-Cotton wrote: post #272
twblalock wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to the cash salary only.

Stock is exactly the same as cash to me, since I always sell all of it on the day it vests. Why would you only compare cash salaries when evaluating compensation? That makes no sense.

My stock award halved in value in the year it took to vest. Treating it "exactly the same as cash" is foolish.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#478

Post by Apocryphon »

home_boi wrote: post #271
knucklesandwich wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech workers (across all disciplines) need to unionize to combat this kind of thing. As has been pointed out below, HR that is staffed and incentivized by the company management only serves the interests of the management. A union is the only structure that can actually win demands for workers by organizing workers to withhold their labor. It's not a panacea, and there are several historical examples of union leaders…

I'm of the opinion that the average software engineer in the USA is already overpaid and underworked with excellent benefits and low incentive to unionize. I'm simplifying it a bit but if you don't like your job, just grab a copy of Cracking the Coding Interview and apply to big companies. The big companies pay very well, have good benefits and interview everyone because of the need for a high head count

Doctors, lawyers, professional athletes, and leading Hollywood actors and actresses might all be overpaid relative to other professions, and yet they all have professional organizations, even unions, representing them. What makes software engineers so exceptional?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#479

Post by jonathankoren »

projektir wrote: post #237
bootload wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Culture was extremely heavy on the drinking;" For me this is a red flag. Booze + programming == pissed programming This leads to bad code also bad team dynamics. Ultimately this will reflect on the product and bottom line. For individuals this reads like a culture where the barrel is creating ^bad apples^. Not a good look on a resume.

We have a pro-drinking culture at my company due to the nature of the business and I haven't found that it's causing any problems. It's generally done outside of work or for specific events, and I've never felt unsafe on any gathering where a lot of drinking was going on. This is a red herring, if anything. I think there's a difference between a culture where people drink a lot vs a culture where people get black out…

>We have a pro-drinking culture at my company due to the nature of the business

Do tell what business this is, because unless the industry is alcohol production, I'm having a hard time believing this is an instrinc quality of an industry and not just a "boys will be boys" excuse.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#480

Post by linkregister »

grey-area wrote: post #281
ChuckMcM wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Top engineers were being poached from Google/FB and these people > were trying to carve out territory in a quickly growing engineering > team. It is always a bit sad when one of the top characteristic of an engineer from organization X is their political ability to carve out an empire. I'm a bit surprised she doesn't have at least one law firm trying to get her to be the lead claimant in a class action lawsuit. See…

I'm a bit surprised so many people want to give her advice. She's already taken a really bold step and written cogently and in a balanced way about her situation, the toxic culture at Uber, and made it clear she's moved on to a better place. Why talk about what she should be doing and hasn't done as if there is only one way to resolve this? Why not give thanks to the writer for writing this and putting up with all th…

I think you have incorrectly attributed ChuckMcM's comment as advice. He was just musing about his surprise that a law firm hasn't already contacted her considering the strength of her case, and having a thought experiment about the outcome.

In this case, it would greatly benefit the public good to litigate. Unfortunately, the risk of lawsuits is the single greatest motivator for U.S. companies to combat sexism and harassment in the workplace. We would hope that companies would recognize the inherent value of encouraging the growth of a class of employees so they can be productive, but this isn't the case in most U.S. companies.

I think it's unlikely that Susan would choose to litigate. She is motivated to design systems, write books, and advance infrastructure engineering. Her personal gain from a lawsuit would be slim (what would the damages even be? She probably has no employment gap, considering her excellent reputation in engineering).

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