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Time to Take a Stand

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: Time to Take a Stand

#471

Post by bassman9000 »

cjslep wrote: post #387
bassman9000 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's got his foot in the door. That's all he needs right now. That's a nice slippery slope you got in there. There's zero mention to muslims in the text of the order, and it's clearly stated that it's temporary, with several revision dates for assesment, the goal being to strengthen the vetting procedures. I bet most people commenting here haven't read it. Do it. Now. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/…

- A ban is not needed while revising the rules. - Revision doesn't mean suspension of the ban. - Temporary can mean indefinitely. - The overwhelming number of terrorists that commit acts of terrorism on American soil come from people born in the United States of America.

Holy shit, no one has actually read the text. Why do I bother.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-musli...

> (c) To temporarily reduce investigative burdens on relevant agencies during the review period described in subsection (a) of this section, to ensure the proper review and maximum utilization of available resources for the screening of foreign nationals, and to ensure that adequate standards are established to prevent infiltration by foreign terrorists or criminals, pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, C-2 visas for travel to the United Nations, and G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4 visas).

> Revision doesn't mean suspension of the ban

Doesn't mean not suspending it either.

> Temporary can mean indefinitely.

It can also mean temporary.

> The overwhelming number of terrorists that commit acts of terrorism on American soil come from people born in the United States of America.

I can also say, without sources, that, if you account immigrants and children of first generation immigrants, there's a disproportion of immigrant attackers vs the total US population, meaning, there's a far higher chance of a terrorist attack resulting of a poor immigration vetting process.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#472

Post by scarmig »

angry-hacker wrote: post #436
scarmig wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anyone who supports ethnic and religious bans and persecution is a bad person. Even if they deprioritize them in voting over other policies, thinking, well, who cares, a little bit of racism never hurt anyone, that makes them a bad person. And Trump promised voters that, and now they're getting what they voted for. The only very thin escape route a Trump-voter has is "I thought he was lying to trick the rubes…

And anyone who supports a man who is killing innocent people with drones, wiretaps all the world, signs things that allow kill people without any questions is a bad person. Heck, some even voted for him twice! What a bunch of fascist. So in the end all the Americans are bad people or maybe you guys start to understand each other more to avoid these situations in the future. Calling each stupid doesn't lead you anywhe…

I guess this is the modern, "And you lynch negroes!" Russian is en vogue among the Trumpistas, I get it.

For what it's worth, I opposed endless drone strikes and endless war too. But you're engaging in an idiotic equivocation: they're simply not comparable.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#473

Post by RangerScience »

rdtsc wrote: post #427

Shouldn't we have been taking a stand against Obama who destabilized the region, was dropping bombs there and arming the "rebels" who had a revolving door relationship with ISIS and other such groups there. Refugees didn't come from a vacuum and it wasn't some natural disaster. They started streaming in because the West including US has been meddling and destabilizing that part of the world. Unfortunately it seems pr…

Hoswabout profiling on "radical" rather than "muslim"? You'd also catch many mass shooters, who (AFAIK) tend to still be radical, but usually aren't muslim.

> letting them in unchecked seem irresponsible

Why do you think they were being let in unchecked? Betcha TENBUX there's plenty of checks.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#474

Post by jpttsn »

meritt wrote: post #380
general_ai wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not Muslims from the 189 remaining countries. So maybe it's not, in fact, about Islam per se? Do you think there is such a possibility? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

It's about Muslims (and only Muslims) from the 7 listed countries. I'm not sure how to make this any more clear.

All the banned people are Muslim, but not all Muslims are banned.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#475

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #222
jsperson wrote: post #58

It makes me sad that politics has made its way to the top of HN. I'm relatively new here. One of the things I love about the community is that it has been something of an oasis over the past few months. This is in no way intended to denigrate the esteemed author or his thesis. I'm just disappointed that we're at this point.

Look at it this way: You can argue that want your little safe space where you can debate Erlang versus Go until the Titanic has gone down but at some point everything is politics and your life too will be affected (and likely not in a positive sense). Not all that long ago PG wanted to argue against the death penalty and it got debated wide and far, but not on HN because hey, we're techies and we can't be bothered wi…

[deleted]

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#476

Post by zo1 »

jMyles wrote: post #78
_m8fo wrote: post #7

Why is that all of these posts saying to "take a stand" fail to explain the political process? I'll just quote myself here. If you want to help stop trump the most effective ways are to: 1. Call - Local congresspeople (http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/) - Senators (https://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/) - Local officials (https://www.usa.gov/elected-officials) 2. Participate - Get involved in local electi…

These items seem to be the very things that have sapped our strength without any measurable impact. We need to find more direct ways to peacefully withdraw our consent of and participation in the existence of the state.

Libertarians et al have been trying to do this for quite some time. It does not work. The entire thing is set up so that you can't withdraw your consent or participation. Fines or jail will ensue.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#477

Post by tlogan »

mythrwy wrote: post #313
stonogo wrote: post #168

> This is very important people It's also complete bullshit. I actually live in a Trump-supporting area, and everyone I know who voted for him is ecstatic about this disgusting, offensive action. Trump is a bad person, and the people who voted for him are bad people, and I hope to God I 'push them away' as far as they'll get from me.

"Trump is a bad person, and the people who voted for him are bad people" I voted for Trump. I support many (not all) of his policies. I don't appreciate being called a bad person. Certainly you have a right to think this but I disagree. I won't go into what I think of people who voted for Hillary because I try not be mindlessly nasty but I don't think they are all "bad people".

I think that a person who supports or condones persecution based solely on ethnic and religious background is a bad person. Or a person who support a leader which does these things.

But that is my opinion.

There are even CEOs and very successful people who are bad people. Even Hitler was Man of the Year in 1938... And Henry Ford loved him.

So just be aware that you are seen as a bad person by certain members of US population. Nothing wrong there. As one guy on TV said: just try not to get into serious conversations with gays, girls, brown and black people and you will be fine...

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#478

Post by finid »

TuringNYC wrote: post #454
finid wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muslims, then GC holders. Very soon, certain group of citizens will suffer the same fate. The prison walls are getting closer... By the time you're able to reach out and touch them, it'd be too late.

Well, that didnt take long. The definition is about to get broader, per WSJ: In a statement that the State Department is due to release, which was reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, the 90-day visa moratorium extends beyond just citizens of Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Libya, and Yemen. It also applies to people who originally hail from those countries but are traveling on a passport issued by any other natio…

Here's a non-paywall-ed version.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-visa-ban-also-applies...

Those nationals or dual nationals holding valid immigrant or nonimmigrant visas will not be permitted to enter the United States during this period. Visa interviews will generally not be scheduled for nationals of these countries during this period.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#479

Post by tacomonstrous »

akjainaj wrote: post #456
tacomonstrous wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a resident of that very city, I thank you for not bringing your bigoted behind here. Stay away, please. Edit: okay, that was not a great thing for me to say. Sorry. I'm just fed up with the repeated vilification of a great American city by the buffoon-in-chief. Yes, violence in the city is a big problem, but it's hardly its defining characteristic. Edit 2: apology rescinded.

Yes, don't worry--I'll stay away from a city that has 250 property crimes and 80 violent crimes every day while those in power keep looking the other way to be politically correct. 15 humans lost their lives yesterday in shootings, 268 during January: http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings I suppose that'll end when Trump sends the Feds as he's promised on Twitter, though.

>Yes, don't worry--I'll stay away from a city that has 250 property crimes and 80 violent crimes every day while those in power keep looking the other way to be politically correct.

Wonderful. Stay away from the world-leading food and culture scene as well. More for the rest of us.

>That'll end when Trump sends the Feds as he's promised on Twitter, though

Under what authority? And which Feds are we talking? Just more delusional talk.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#480

Post by bassman9000 »

raverbashing wrote: post #452
bassman9000 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Given their history, and the involvement of officials of Saudi Gov in 9/11, they should also be included. Obvious reason I can think for not doing it are - business ties : weak reason - given that, as little as we'd like the country, it's a stable one, and this could destabilize it, and the entire region, even more : weak reason too - US currently engaged in a war with Yemen with Saudi allies : strong reason.…

> False. It's incomplete. Such an obvious vulnerability as this is either gross incompetence or due to the original action being nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Pick one

Logical fallacy.

"I can't cover 100% immigration threats"

"Thus, I shall cover 0%, instead of 50%"

"Otherwise, it's smoke an mirrors"

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