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U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#471

Post by sangnoir »

omginternets wrote: post #465
sangnoir wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So which of the reasons did you cite is responsible for their lack of success with the NBA? Whether it was intended or not, OP was dog-whistling the genetics argument, which I do not buy.

>Whether it was intended or not, OP was dog-whistling the genetics argument, which I do not buy. Again, no it wasn't, and even if it were it does not change the veracity of my (more nuanced) rendition.

You are making a totally different argument - not refining OPs original one. If you think yours is a refinement of the same argument, then you could perhaps state which of your listed reasons explains OPs lack of success with the NBA?

For what it's worth - I do not disagree with your argument, but I do not think it adequately explains the situation.

OT: it's somewhat surreal for me to experience HN going all out for the status quo (regardless of subject). I just wanted to get that off my chest - carry on.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#472

Post by FT_intern »

shmulkey18 wrote: post #335
azernik wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the full complaint [1] the DoL mentions this. "Moreover, comparisons between available applicants from national labor data and Oracle's hires show gross and statistically significant disparities in the hiring of Asians versus non-Asians into PT1 and Product Development positions at Oracle Redwood Shores. These comparisons are particularly relevant because Oracle's applicant pool was heavily over-represented by Asi…

"referral bonuses that encouraged its heavily Asian workforce to recruit other Asians" Every technology company I have worked at used referral bonuses to find qualified applicants. This common recruiting practice is now considered discriminatory by the DoL if a company's workforce is "heavily Asian?" Unbelievable.

Many companies (FB for example) actually give higher referral bonuses for black/hispanic and females.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#473

Post by omginternets »

sangnoir wrote: post #471
omginternets wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether it was intended or not, OP was dog-whistling the genetics argument, which I do not buy. Again, no it wasn't, and even if it were it does not change the veracity of my (more nuanced) rendition.

You are making a totally different argument - not refining OPs original one. If you think yours is a refinement of the same argument, then you could perhaps state which of your listed reasons explains OPs lack of success with the NBA? For what it's worth - I do not disagree with your argument, but I do not think it adequately explains the situation. OT: it's somewhat surreal for me to experience HN going all out for…

I'm clarifying what I'm 99.99% certain OP meant by his argument.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#474

Post by pc86 »

dawnbreez wrote: post #430
jdavis703 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since graduating college I've stayed continuously employeed at several different Bay Area tech startups, so I'm pretty sure I have at least decent technology skills. Yet I've been to several interviews where questions about race/ethnicity were brought up (and I failed to get offers from those companies that ask such questions). I can only imagine what it's like being a woman going for these positions. My point, a lot…

Now, having done a few job applications myself: there is apparently a tax break or something for hiring a person of color, because race is always included in the job application, and always under the same header as questions for, say, disabled or veteran status. However, asking in the interviews is unheard of, at least in shudder retail. And while outright denyig someone for their race isn't as common as you might th…

> there is apparently a tax break or something for hiring a person of color

False (as stated in a sibling comment)

> because race is always included in the job application

I have not once ever been asked my race. Perhaps because they'll be able to tell at the interview? But it's not "always included"

> and always under the same header as questions for, say, disabled or veteran status.

I've only ever been asked about disabled or veteran status after employment.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#475

Post by digler999 »

uiri wrote: post #441
tomohawk wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you start with $1 million in pennies and I start with $1 million in pennies and we play a game with a fair coin: heads I win, tails you win - with the winner getting a penny, guess what happens if we play the game over and over again? Over time, one of us will have $0, and the other will have $2 million. So, even with equality of opportunity, there can be gross disparity of outcome over time. The pursuit of happin…

A fair coin means that it is equally likely for you to take a penny from me as it is for me to take a penny from you. For instance, if we play the game 1000 times, heads might come up 505 times and tails might come up 495 times. Over time, the difference between the number of times tails comes up and head comes up will go to 0. Therefore, over time, we'll both stay at $1 million.

> Over time, the difference between the number of times tails comes up and head comes up will go to 0.

That doesn't preclude arbitrarily-large variances in between that could add up to a Head/Tail difference > 10^6.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#476

Post by garanduss »

logandavis wrote: post #450
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he meant the following. Suppose that for University X, the minimal SAT requirement for white applicants was 700/700, and for black applicants was 400/400. Suppose that the SAT scores of all white students at X are uniformly distributed over (700-800/700-800), and those of the black students are uniformly distributed over (400-800/400-800). Now randomly pick one white student, and one black student. Which of t…

Your heart surgery question is ridiculous. As anyone who has taken the SAT can attest, it has nothing to do with ability to perform complex medical procedures. As for your question about which number drawn at random from two differently distributed populations would be higher on average - yes, in this hypothetical college that admits black students with SAT scores below the black population's average but only takes w…

You're pontificating too much on test scores when that's only part of it. Standards are generally lower for black and Hispanic applicants - they don't just receive a test score handicap. Also, they get much of this advantage regardless of the quality of their home life and previous schools.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#478

Post by garanduss »

rifung wrote: post #345
garanduss wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're just using a different definition of diversity. Many people oppose mass immigration for reasons other than xenophobia. Speaking personally, I found that work environments with lots of new or unamericanized immigrants had little collaboration, little in-office comraderie, and no socialization outside of work (e.g. pub nights). It was boring and I pined for a culturally American setting. Sometimes "multicul…

> Speaking personally, I found that work environments with lots of new or unamericanized immigrants had little collaboration, little in-office comraderie, and no socialization outside of work (e.g. pub nights). It was boring and I pined for a culturally American setting. Sometimes "multicultural" just means the subset of all cultures involved. It sounds like you just wish they were more like you? Isn't this the kind…

>It sounds like you just wish they were more like you? Isn't this the kind of mentality that prevents diversity?

Using your definition of diversity, yes. I think that part of the point in making is that people maintain diversity as the ultimate goal. If it's directly harmful to the more characteristic goals of your grad program or company, is it really worth it? (I'm not advocating for discrimination, but using fewer visas isn't discrimination.)

>I actually hate when teams go to pubs because it just marginalizes people who can't/don't drink, god forbid there are any recovering alcoholics or people allergic to it.

Meh. I don't think drinking should be the only group activity, but a little alcohol goes goes a long way in getting people comfortable with one another.

>It's our job to make them feel welcome and like they can express themselves in this country.

I generally agree with this. However, many of these people seem to have little interest in American culture, and wealthy leftists seem intent on pumping as many immigrants into the US as possible. For example, many STEM grad programs are completely overrun by Southeast Asian and East Asian students who did undergrad in their home countries. IME, these programs have a small minority of Americans and are absolutely abysmal socially. The professors tend to be SJW's, which makes me think that they don't want to acknowledge the consequences of this, although it may just be hard to find qualified American applicants.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#479

Post by garanduss »

zo1 wrote: post #400
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he meant the following. Suppose that for University X, the minimal SAT requirement for white applicants was 700/700, and for black applicants was 400/400. Suppose that the SAT scores of all white students at X are uniformly distributed over (700-800/700-800), and those of the black students are uniformly distributed over (400-800/400-800). Now randomly pick one white student, and one black student. Which of t…

That is indeed what I meant. It's a whole lot more "obvious" here in South Africa. There are actual quotas, rather than "score" enhancements and juggling like there is in America. With the assumption that the "range" of ability is equal in both groups. The simple fact that you take a smaller quantity of one, rather than the other, implies that you're taking a different ability range of one group over the other. So if…

American schools also use quota-like systems.
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