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New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

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Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#471
Isn't the apple market getting soft? The app gold rush is over and it never was a very good deal to begin with. Apple wants a cut of your development profits, they can yank your app or worse, yank your developer account arbitrarily. Swift, while not finished yet, commodifies the the apple dev market further. I don't think devs have a choice, they have to move on to other markets.

The esc and F key is a red herring. I do most of my coding on a Das Keyboard.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#472

I dislike this post intensely. The opinion comes across as uncharitable, as the author probably has not used this Macbook Pro yet. How can you (alexeysemeney) be so sure? I consider myself a developer, and I almost never use the Fn and ESC keys on my Mac. Everybody uses the computer differently, but I'm pretty sure this is not a deal-breaker for most. One could also argue that the touch bar might lead to innovative d…

I think it's a completely fair post. Devs are a huge market for Apple, but Apple is ignoring them. This isn't about ESC, it's about whether Apple has any interest in acknowledging the dev market and keeping devs on board. The answer is "no." Apple is making no concessions to developers or professional power users who need performance. Instead, Apple is producing vanilla-grade laptops with a touch of gimmicky brand fr…

They're ignoring the giant behemoth that is ....Vim users..? What?

Wait till the EMACS crowd gets a whiff of how Apple refuses to sell pedals for their keybindings, then Apple is truly in trouble.

Look, I know VIM is popular, but so is XCode, so is Sublime, so is Atom, so is TextMate, so is a multitude of other text editors for God's sake, that to claim that Apple is somehow "abandoning the entire software development community", as if VIM users somehow speak for all of them, is pretty whiny and unrealistic.

Do you think Apple really worries that a bunch of what, Open Source "hackers" producing yet another Ruby testing framework are now going to abandon their platform? Seriously? Get off your high horse, man.

There's thousands of Visual Studio developers in the Windows world and thousands of XCode developers in the OS X world who don't give two shits about your 1970's vintage terminal mode text editor. Apple will be fine. Software developers (again, a much larger group than you obviously think) are also going to be fine.

And aren't you guys always bragging what power users you are? So now that one (remappable!!!!) key is gone your entire world is crashing around you?

If you're such a fossil that you can't adapt to the absence of this one key, that already is of extremely limited use for 99.9% of people, how did you cope with the disappearance of the floppy disk, the caps lock key, the parallel port, VGA, optical disc drives? How did you ever adjust from storing backups of your code on floppy disks once that went away?

What happens when Windows laptops one day follow suit and remove the Escape key and the (just as useless) Caps Lock key? If VIM users can't adapt to a simple change such as this, maybe you deserve to fade to irrelevancy? Just keep buying 2008-era laptops off Ebay well into the 2030's, I guess?

Truly pathetic rants, truly.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#473
I'm surprised that so many people use them even today. Unless you're fully ingrained into the Mac ecosystem, there are just too many idiosyncrasies that make moving between platforms in possible, like the use of the 'command' key which no other platform in the world uses, or the weird placement of the control key which completely negates years of muscle memory (a trend which some Windows laptops are unfortunately beginning to follow, even in business-class machines; thankfully mine at least lets me rebind it in the BIOS).

Honest question for people who develop on Macs: Do you exclusively develop on them, or have you just learned to put up with differences between it and Linux/Windows?

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#474
post #116

Dramatic click bait IMO. You could really hack that touchbar to do some great productivity enhancements.

Nothing you can't already do. It's just buttons with pretty graphics on them. If you want buttons to do "great productivity enhancements" the tech has been available for that on Macs for over a decade. Possibly decades plural; the Mac has had an active extension community for a long time, let alone the official stuff from Apple like AppleTalk, however flawed it may have been. And there isn't much you can do with the…

They're not just buttons. They are also sliders, pickers and any other GUI elements that you can think of.

They are visual. So you don't have to memorise any key combinations. Also they are context aware. This means you don't have to memorise all those key-context-application combinations.

It is multitouch. You cannot click at two different points on the screen with the touchpad. So this is an improvement over the current input mechanism.

Is touchbar better than touchscreens? Maybe or maybe not. Who knows now. But note that it is not placed on the screen. It is placed near the keyboard, where the other input mechanisms and your fingers normally are.

You don't need to "look down at the keyboard". In a laptop you are already looking there. It's already in your peripheral vision. And if you use an external monitor (but not an external keyboard), you simply don't have to use the touch bar.

I don't understand this negativity on HN. There will be many creative applications for this new input/output method. I'd rather see people brainstorming on all those new possibilities.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My laptop should work the way I want it to, not the other way around.

Then just map Esc to Caps Lock if you like. Unless you feel Caps Lock is still critical for commenting on YouTube videos, in that case I guess the new MBP is just a useless paperweight.

Nope - at the moment, my CAPS lock does nothing. But I'm not going to adjust my habit of where to find the ESC key just so I can have some pointless colourful lights.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was really nothing preventing Apple from offering 32GB and even 64GB chips. 16GB MAX is pathetic for $3000. What's with the old chipset/cpu? DDR3?

Those that do need more RAM are probably are already using desktop options. I understand it would be nice to have more RAM by default or optional, I would also like it since I tend to keep my laptops for a long time (current one is a 2008 13'' Macbook Unibody), but there's always a reason for not doing it, either it be technical, economical or commercial. It's not a decision you take on a whim. They introduced a majo…

Actually, you used to get pretty solid performance for the price/form factor from Apple. For instance when I purchase my Mac Pro desktop in 2008. It was a RIDICULOUSLY good deal for what you got. The Xeon processors alone were $1500 each on NewEgg the day I purchased it. They've just progressively gone less and less value, as the years have gone by.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#477
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your budget: $2000 - A loaded Dell Precision workstation. Wait for Kaby Lake quads though. If you like the Surface Books that's an option too. $1500 - Dell XPS. $1200 - ASUS UX501VW. (Only one RAM slot is upgradable, though) If you have forgiven Lenovo after last year's man-in-the-middle scandal, they continue to make the best keyboards. All of these machines run Linux well (with an occasional driver compi…

The precision 5510 looks great, but: http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/dell-precision-5510 . > This workstation can get some serious work done, but its battery life of 5 hours and 34 minutes means you likely won't be taking it far from your desk. The 13" rMBP gets 12 hours on the same test: http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/all-day-strong-longest-las... . I don't feel like I'm being unreasonably picky here. I'…

> Why can't anyone else?

OS X vs. Windows?

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They work excellent with Linux. Dell actually sells a "Developer Edition" of the XPS line with Ubuntu pre-installed.

Seems like the Developer Edition is EOL in the UK at least. I'll look for some reviews about the standard edition.

There was a new update a month or two back, I think they're just waiting for it to filter through to the UK.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#479
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a vim user, esc is pretty important. I would say the author clearly knows very little computer specs: "The MacBook Pro had options with 2.4 gigahertz dual-core processors back in 2010. Anything new in 2016? Not really, well… nope." Because a 2010 2.4ghz dual core is identical to a 2016 2.4 ghz dual core.... I thought we got over comparing processors purely by their clock speed a long time ago. (I will agree that t…

I nearly exclusively use VIm and any other editor I use has a VIm mode plugin installed. I pretty much can't work productively in anything else. I can tell you that I haven't used Esc in ages. I have Caps Lock mapped to Ctrl (as it is a vastly more useful a key than Esc and Caps Lock is a much better position for it and is just as an extraneous as Esc is). I use Ctrl-C or Ctrl-[ to exit insert mode and it works just…

Esc is, by and large a useless key

I'm not a Mac User, but I use THE ESC key extensively to cancel out of dialogs.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. Been using vi as my primary command-line editor for 25+ years, and have never used the ESC key, and just use the default setup. I don't even know what commands would use the ESC key?

ESC key is the default in vim, most vim users do use it.

Thanks for some sanity.

The other anecdote is I've been using vim for about 15 years, and use esc daily. I am constantly in multiple vim environments - different servers, different clients, different OS, etc. I don't have the luxury of saying "I'm going to install all my default vim keybindings and plugins on every vim installation I ever use". Walking someone else over the phone who has to do vim - I need to count on some standard defaults being there, and 'esc' is one.

So yeah - some of you "power users" - fine - you've never touched ESC in 20 years - good for you. You're in the minority.

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