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Re: undefined

#471

Post by kazagistar »

atomi wrote: post #435
briandear wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it not be argued that Clinton engages in non-white identity politics? Her 'deplorables' comment was almost entirely referring to white people. Plenty of deplorables that are Democrat and non-white but her comment was playing the identity card just as deftly as Trump's people have.

Trump's mass deportations are a form of ethnic cleansing.

This is the sort of BS that ruins any chance of dialogue. Just calling someone or some action a label is not productive, just like anti-abortion activists calling it baby killing or whatever. The people who support those actions aren't going to think they are any less good, just, fair, moral etc just because you gave it an overly dramatic label. Why not discuss impact, moral principles, or whatever else actually makes it possible to at least start from a middle ground?

Re: undefined

#472

Post by yodsanklai »

Radim wrote: post #170

Everything has to be such a spectacle, so black-and-white and binary in the US. The forum discussions, here and elsewhere, give outside observers this impression: |=============================X=| Candidate X: some minor flaws, but overall a great option |=X=============================| Candidate Y: the new Hitler, world falls apart if elected For reference, here is how many people in (not only) Europe view this "gr…

> For reference, here is how many people in (not only) Europe view this "great American match"

It's difficult to generalize over Europe. For instance, I live in France and have no idea about the opinions of let say Romanians or Swedes. But my feeling is the opposite. I suspect that Trump has more supporters in the US (even on HN) than in France.

Here I don't see anybody enthusiastic about Clinton, but most people and media don't take Trump seriously (and that's an euphemism). However he has his supporters, essentially among right wing extremists (who tend to like Putin as well).

Re: undefined

#473

Post by shaftoe »

ting_bu_dung wrote: post #434
ThomPete wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real tragedy is how easily peoples attention are all about form not substance. For all the crazy things Trump is saying he actually have some points that are far more important to discuss than whatever he said about women or journalists. With Hillary you get a seasoned politician who is going to do what they have always been doing. Absolutely nothing. That's besides of course making a huge mess internationally. A…

the real tragedies is you are not aware you're just a little bit misogynistic yourself. "With Hillary you have a woman how is point her fingers at Trump". what does her being a woman have anything to do with your argument? let's face it, you're willing to overlook the fact that trump is a psychopathic, women hating, racist, russia-affiliated, tax-dodging scum because hillary. all the points you've raised about hillar…

I think we need a new law to augment Godwin's Law, that all debates about this election devolve into agreeing that both candidates are grotesque and disagreeing about which one is worse.

Re: undefined

#474

Post by notthemessiah »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #467

I wonder what his thoughts are about Trump nonconsensually groping women? A libertarian could not support such violence/coercion. [Edit: wow, off-topic?]

Thiel thinks the world would be better if women couldn't vote.

"Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron."

Basically, women don't vote for libertarian economic policies, and make it impossible to have a capitalist democracy, so he wants to get rid of democracy.

Source: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...

Re: undefined

#475

Post by Merad »

nolepointer wrote: post #465
thecrow1213 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's funny that he's supporting the party that is making an issue out of the "who can use which bathroom" deal. Transgender people just want to use the bathroom they align with, it's the GOP that's making up stories about how children are at risk or some shit. Theil is an idiot.

Except that Trump has said that he does not care who uses what bathroom at his hotels and such. So, no, Thiel isn't an idiot.

Except that Trump's running mate is a hardcore social conservative... and he would likely be one of the most powerful/influential VPs in American history thanks to Trump's lack of interest in the details of governing.

Re: undefined

#476

Post by kazagistar »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #462
briandear wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax dodger? Like the New York Times? Carried loss isn't a tax dodge. Ironic that Google and other massive tech companies have their Dutch Irish Sandwiches yet overwhelmingly support Clinton. Does anyone think they would support someone that will hurt their business? Of course not. One could infer that Clinton would further enable so-called tax dodging. Google isn't going to risk billions supporting a candidate becaus…

> There's something in it for them. That's untrue. A Trump presidency following the major Snowden leaks would likely be an international death sentence for US tech companies. Other nations might tolerate presidents they feel they can deal with controlling the NSA apparatus in their nation, but almost certainly will take steps to prevent Donald Trump from having the same tools. For an internet company, the split betwe…

> Other nations might tolerate presidents they feel they can deal with controlling the NSA apparatus in their nation, but almost certainly will take steps to prevent Donald Trump from having the same tools.

That's an intereating point: the argument was always "even if the current regime does not use data collection for evil, the next one moght."

This is why I secretly hope Trump wins, just so all the pro NSA democrats get their collective heads out of their asses.

Re: undefined

#477

Post by daveFNbuck »

golemotron wrote: post #392
DominikR wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Austria, it was a disgrace. All of media was attacking the right wing guy with no dissenting voices, and you have to be afraid of personal and professional consequences if you endorse him or say anything against the Socialist candidate they are trying to push. It's literally like in the Soviet Union, at least that's what my parents told me as they came from a Communist country.

Just like the US this year. This is not an exaggeration. Many people would have professional and personal consequences for supporting Trump in public. People like Peter Thiel and Scott Adams have enough money to not care. Scott isn't even endorsing him and he says that his speaking engagements have dried up. We may see a big difference between the polling and the election results this year. The Shy Tory Effect came t…

If Scott isn't even endorsing Trump in public, why is he half of your examples of people who are facing consequences for it?

I suspect it has a lot more to do with people paying more attention to his shit-slinging blog. Just on Thursday he declared that he's relieved that "Everything that goes wrong with the country from this point forward is women’s fault." How many people are going to pay to hear that?

Re: undefined

#478

Post by api »

Pilfer wrote: post #254
api wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for others, only myself. To me he's an obvious off the charts narcissist... so much so that his narcissism actually seems extreme against the backdrop of Washington politics and the media. That's kind of amazing. IMHO that disqualifies him from the presidency regardless of his policies. It's analogous to why you can't get a pilot's license with bad eyesight. A narcissist is a person with a dangerous addic…

RE: your point on narcissism. My perspective is that if he becomes president, his excessive narcissism might actually be good thing for the country. As a narcissist Trump wants his legacy to be remembered as positive. He doesn't want future historians to see him as a failure or some no name president. Trump's campaign is built on the promise of "Making America Great Again", and if he fails on that promise then histor…

An alcoholic might seem like the life of the party, but only if you leave before they transform into bad drunk.

Same goes for narcissism in leadership. Superficially it can seem effective until you hit an issue that makes the narcissist choose between their duties and their fragile ego. Then the life of the party throws up on your shoes.

Re: undefined

#479

Post by api »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #270
douche wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your last point holds a lotof the key. I'm technically coastal, but where I come from is more Rust Belt in character. Things used to be good, maybe not great, but a lot of people made a living doing honest work and supported strong communities a generation ago. People in those areas today look around and see a gutted, graying, opiod-dependent third-world wasteland where they used to thrive. Things are not bet…

Has Trump provided a credible plan to help these people?

No, which is also why I would not vote for him.

It's a tough complex issue and Trump just has populist drool. That never works. See: Chavez, Hugo. (Populism tends to work out the same regardless of whether it's left or right. This is also why I got cold feet about Bernie pretty early.)

Re: undefined

#480

Post by daveFNbuck »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #410
golemotron wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like the US this year. This is not an exaggeration. Many people would have professional and personal consequences for supporting Trump in public. People like Peter Thiel and Scott Adams have enough money to not care. Scott isn't even endorsing him and he says that his speaking engagements have dried up. We may see a big difference between the polling and the election results this year. The Shy Tory Effect came t…

When I've posted criticism of Hillary on Facebook, I've gotten savaged in the comments by my liberal friends. It's a sobering and depressing experience and I'm sad to realize that my respect for most of them has declined, as no doubt theirs has for me. Periodically I will post a defense of freedom of speech, and I'll remind people that I'm willing to fight and die for their right to disagree with me, with which they…

You posted something your friends disagreed with, they posted something you disagreed with in response. That's what freedom of speech is about, unless they're posting about how you should be jailed for criticizing Hillary.

Freedom of speech isn't freedom from people changing their opinion about you based on what you say.

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