San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#471

Post by 100k » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:16 AM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #206

whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

The idea that in-fill development could have possibly made a drastic change in rents in San Francisco is genuinely crazy . I see people making that claim all the time, and it's madness, guys. Even if literally every density-increasing project was rubber-stamped with zero money or time cost, how many housing units do you think that this city could possibly have added in the last fifteen years? Unless you're proposing…

I don't think it's crazy. There's already over 60,000 units in the development pipeline: http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2016/02/a-record-62000-un...

This timeline is measured in decades, but imagine if San Francisco was easier to get permits to build?

Large swaths of the city are built under their _currently allowed_ zoned height (there was a map that went around, I wish I could find it). Add a few stories to some existing buildings, build on empty/underutilized lots, reduce parking requirements, legalize in-law units, add in the affordable housing bonus program...you'd be talking about tens of thousands of units.

I do agree there is a strong argument that this wouldn't be enough (Bay Area-wide coordination is necessary), but it would slow the rate of increase. For example, after an apartment building boom, Seattle rents are now decreasing: http://cityobservatory.org/in-some-cities-the-housing-constr...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#472

Post by x0x0 » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:16 AM UTC

quicklyfrozen wrote: post #457

x0x0 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Boston, but Maine is not in any sense close to nyc. I think the difference is distance. In sf, world class skiing is 3 hours away; the beach is 20 minutes in much of the city; great hiking is across the bridge in Marin or south along 1, well under an hour away. It's not a trip; enjoying the outdoors takes an afternoon. I have an acquaintance who works near the presidio and surfs over lunch. When I…

How many jobs if I'm getting close to 50? :-)

on the peninsula, plenty; in sf, work for a larger company or at least not for yc-aged / early 20s founders and you'll do ok

my oldest coworker, and this was at a < 10 person startup, was not a founder and was a line level search engineer and over 65.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#473

Post by austin34 » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:18 AM UTC

bkjelden wrote: post #385

ryandrake wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious: How did you manage to transfer your Bay Area salary to Austin? I would imagine that $120K is a ridiculous amount there. How did you even ask for it with a straight face? Are you making 2X all of your co-workers or something?

HIRED indicates it's not unreasonable at all: http://get.hired.com/rs/348-IPO-044/images/Hired-State-of-Sa...

I work in Austin, and can confirm that $120k is not ridiculous.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#474

Post by yompers888 » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:19 AM UTC

Periodic wrote: post #371

sfotoatx wrote: post #130

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

I'm in the process of moving to Sacramento from San Jose. My wife and I sat down and looked at what made us happy and we decided that living in Silicon Valley was not high on our list. I'm tired of the costs and crowding. The cost of living is about 30% lower and housing is significantly lower. I'm managing my career by working for a San Francisco company and working remotely. I'll commute in once a week, which is st…

Plus, your proximity to Tahoe skiing is to die for!

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#475

Post by mtviewdave » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:27 AM UTC

geebee wrote: post #223

asfakeaccount wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern mid rise and skyscrapers are actually safer in earthquakes than the Victoria homes of San Francisco. If our housing consisted of modern housing our city would suffer way less damages than what will happen today if the big one hits.

The french quarter in new orleans is also probably less safe than modern buildings, but I wouldn't want to see it torn down just because rents would be cheaper. SF does need to build, badly, but I'm wary of the term NIMBY-ism. It is descriptive, but I think it invites false equivalence. There are degrees of NIMBY. I actually think that some of the burbs, like walnut creek or mountain view (especially the latter) have…

>Mountain view's NIMBYism is especially objectionable since it actually green lighted the corporate construction that brings many new workers to the area, while almost with the same stroke of the pen banned new housing around those places of business.

This is out of date, and has been for a while. The voters of Mountain View responded to the housing crisis by voting in a much more pro-housing city council. There are now over 10,000 units planned for North Bayshore (the area around the Google and LinkedIn campuses):

http://www.mv-voice.com/news/2016/03/03/council-oks-plans-fo...

As a long-time resident and voter in Mountain View, it's exasperating to have people so fixated on the NIMBY narrative that they ignore the significant steps the city and voters have and are taking to address the housing crisis. Regardless of what Matt Yglesias said, or that article from the Washington Post said, the votes of the Mountain View citizenry, and the resulting choices of the City Council, should make it clear that we're not a bunch of anti-density NIMBYs.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#476

Post by Apocryphon » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:36 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #365

sjg007 wrote: post #362

I'm about ready to cry uncle. Maybe now tech companies will consider remote work. Everyone will be happier.

Careful what you wish for. If your job can be done from home, it can be done from India.

Working at hardware companies, you quickly realize the toll taken by having to deal with vendors in Shenzhen. Meetings at the extremities of the day on both sides of the Ocean isn't fun for anyone. Outsourcing your core development team, let alone QA or sysadmin, to Asia isn't a panacea.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#477

Post by Apocryphon » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:37 AM UTC

funkaster wrote: post #114

bogomipz wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really - "This is the most thriving technical community in the entire world"? I'm calling BS. Have you been to New York City recently? Rents for a 1 bedroom are nowhere near that. Lets talk about that community - there are meetups? Wow. You can go to a meetup on any night of the week in New York or Austin. Besides that explain "the community"? Oh you go out and drink craft beers after work? You can do that anywhere.…

I live in SF and 100% agree with you. There's nothing in SF that you can't find in some other place. I do like living here, but I don't see myself living here longer than a few years. If I had to start my own tech company, I would probably have the exec team here (because of VCs, really, that's the only reason, not a "tech thriving community") and build my team in EU, maybe Berlin. We're currently hiring at my job an…

Maybe build your hypothetical tech team in Montreal: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11424876

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#478

Post by 100k » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:42 AM UTC

akgerber wrote: post #95

sliverstorm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So consider a nice, quaint neighborhood. Person A lives there. Person B wants to live there too, because it is so nice. Ok, let's say we double supply. All the houses are now either twice as high, or half as big, or maybe the trees were cut down and the bushes ripped out to make room. There's twice as many people & everything therein. Is it still the same nice neighborhood?

Very dense neighborhoods can still be quaint with trees and bushes. This census tract is around twice as dense as San Francisco: https://goo.gl/maps/d2rQ7wc6Tc12

And Paris -- one of the most beautiful and quaint cities -- has three times the population density of San Francisco.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#479

Post by JoshTriplett » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:45 AM UTC

mahyarm wrote: post #386

msoad wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I don't want to commute. 2 hours a day worths more than $2000/mo to me. -----

It's more like 1 hr a day on a train if you're close to a bart station. It's closer than living in the sunset for most jobs!

> It's more like 1 hr a day on a train if you're close to a bart station.

My commute currently takes 4 minutes. Any longer than 10 and I'd start searching for a closer place to live

A quick search suggests that the closest home for sale near our corporate headquarters in Silicon Valley would be a 16-24 minute commute, list price $1M. Or 25-40 minutes for $600k.

Assuming you commute 5 days a week, twice a day, multiply your commute by 10 to get the time per week, or ~480 to get the time per year. A one hour commute is 480 hours a year, or 20 full days (or 80 8-hour periods).

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#480

Post by chipsy » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:57 AM UTC

batbomb wrote: post #452

physcab wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. My sister is a civil engineer on the SMART train - supposed to have been light rail from Fishermans Wharf all the way to Santa Rosa. The Golden Gate Bridge actually has a railway line below it that hasn't been used. But the train will only go to Larkspur ferry because Marin disallowed it.

> The Golden Gate Bridge actually has a railway line below it that hasn't been used. No it doesn't. You might have some memories crossed, but there's definitely no railway.

The Bay Bridge OTOH did have a railway(Key System rail) for some time after it opened. Ripped up in the mid-century turn away from streetcars, thus we now have only car traffic on both decks.