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On asking job candidates to code

philcalcado.com

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Re: On asking job candidates to code

#471

Post by runamok »

spike021 wrote: post #245
dominotw wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had nightmare of a interview experience with AirBnb in 2012. They asked me take 2 days off from work and fly all the way to SFO after I wasted couple of hours doing their coding homework. The first interviewer started with "your degree is not from a good school" like the very first sentence right to my face. He then asked me a string matching question, and insisted that I code up his brute force solution (with terr…

Nowadays, at least for their engineering internships, they have a pre-filled list of top schools to choose from followed by an "other" option (at least when I tried applying a couple years ago). That told me exactly what I needed to know. I'd be instantly rejected because of not going to a "good school".

It might be that the list includes schools where they have visited and presented, etc. Thus they can measure the effectiveness of their intern pipeline development program. I know that is something my company does.

Might be smarter to have a "Where did you hear about this internship?" question instead and have "on-campus event" as a choice.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#472

Post by runamok »

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #170

Weird. I've created from scratch: new CRDT data-types for geospatial problems, new highly-available transaction patterns that provide useful causal history and atomic visibility, large-scale messaging platforms (400k ops/sec), high-throughput machine learning pipelines, lock-free lightweight-process mailbox implementations, and an end-to-end build pipeline for generating bare-metal rumpkernels to be parallel deployed…

Because I interviewed at least two interns in CS Masters programs that struggled to program a for loop.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#473

Post by eschutte2 »

logfromblammo wrote: post #175
kasey_junk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is giving out an 8+ hour programming project as part of the application process really considered good hiring practice? I'd say 8 hours is too long. I always strive for a 4 hours, but I've seen that 4 hours chop 16 hours off of the candidates time and more than 32 off of the companies. > What's the point of maintaining an online portfolio and a github profile full of code The vast, vast, vast majority of candidates…

Exactly. My after-work profile consists mainly of my non-driving kids getting to their non-school activities on time, the custom-built furniture in my living room, the lawn calibrated to give the HOA conniptions without actually breaking any covenants, the brake fluid level in my 2001 car that is definitely leaking it very slowly, my almost-completed low fantasy novel that I started for NaNoWriMo in 2012, DIY pajamas…

Funny you say that, I once worked for someone who interviewed potential product managers by asking how they would spec, design, and build their own entertainment center. Seemed to work pretty well.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#474

Post by randycupertino »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #303
kafkaesq wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your degree is not from a good school" Next time they do that, I hope the candidate says whatever profanities they feel obliged to say to the interviewer's face. And then walks out. By all means, keep posting + telling your friends about this experience.

Its all too common. Probably for the usual reason - it works so well. Many candidates from a 'good school' have been filtered for ability, so essentially come with an endorsement. Those from other schools don't have that endorsement. They may be equally capable, but then again they may not. In fact, often not. So, discrimination is rampant because it works so well. Its not fair, possibly not legal, but hard to stamp…

Theranos did the same thing to me. The first question their COO aggressively asked me was, "how come you went to such a bad school?"

Now I look at what's happening with Theranos and laugh, and laugh :)

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#475

Post by [deleted] »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #469
ClayFerguson wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What these companies have successfully done is weed out all the great devs who value their time very much. Those who are desperate for a job will spend the 8hrs it takes on these silly tests and make it thru the process. Good developers who can take their choice of jobs will just ignore these companies who think they are being clever to require a test, and just move to some other company what is not showing signs tha…

"What these companies have successfully done is weed out all the great devs who value their time very much." That's a feature. They get the good, undervalued talent early. "If an interviewer is not capable of determining my knowledge level by a normal interview that tells me right away something up, and I probably don't want to work with them because they aren't too smart themselves." News flash, all companies are ho…

[deleted]

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#476

Post by collyw »

bobbles wrote: post #470
ClayFerguson wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What these companies have successfully done is weed out all the great devs who value their time very much. Those who are desperate for a job will spend the 8hrs it takes on these silly tests and make it thru the process. Good developers who can take their choice of jobs will just ignore these companies who think they are being clever to require a test, and just move to some other company what is not showing signs tha…

Good developers who can take their choice of jobs *who are just as likely to leave for another company as soon as something better comes along?

You are implying that willingness to take a silly coding test will translate to greater company loyalty?

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#477

Post by estefan »

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #242
estefan wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who mentioned riddles and puzzles?

I lump them all together. There's barely a neurological distinction between engagement in a riddle/puzzle and a programming challenge.

Fizz-buzz yes. A small task representative of the work is completely different.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#478

Post by bogomipz »

jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

Yep, the lack of professional courtesy evident in things like asking someone to write an API from scratch and then abandoning any communication with that candidate seems to be a hallmark of the 20 something tech dweeb. And sadly this behavior is now routine. It also speaks to a larger red flag - namely that the company is letting someone so short on professionalism represent the company. The sad thing is that this is so common. Its not just limited to the 20 something developer but also the clueless HR flunkie/recruiters. The upside is that you usually spot these things quite early and can decline to pursue these things further.

There are no shortage of companies that need someone your age who have been around the block and can bring professionalism in addition to a wealth of experience. Don't sell yourself short. Even if they called you back after a month of ignoring you would you really want to work for them? Probably not. Generally ding dongs like that are only capable of hiring other ding dongs(confirmation bias), hold out for working with adults. You age is an asset not liability.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#479

Post by bogomipz »

dominotw wrote: post #215
ryandrake wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often the "information sideband" is the very fact that the company decided to cut off all communication as a way to convey rejection. If they treat random people that way, how do you think they treat people who are obligated to be on their worksite every day? Companies: DON'T DO THIS! I, for one, actively discourage smart friends from interviewing at places that treat candidates like shit.

I had nightmare of a interview experience with AirBnb in 2012. They asked me take 2 days off from work and fly all the way to SFO after I wasted couple of hours doing their coding homework. The first interviewer started with "your degree is not from a good school" like the very first sentence right to my face. He then asked me a string matching question, and insisted that I code up his brute force solution (with terr…

Are you kidding me? This actually happened? I understand maybe feeling traumatized but really fuck those people. Its a shame that Glassdoor is such a pile of garbage there should be more of a forum for people to get the word out about such douchey and unprofessionalism. I hate to generalize but I feel like this bratty and completely unprofessionalism seem to be quite common in San Francisco and the Peninsula. I am basing this on interviews I have had and others I've spoken to. This childish behavior is not really common in other parts of the country - It's hard to imagine this happening in New York, Boston or Austin for instance.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#480

Post by golergka »

kozukumi wrote: post #429
golergka wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

27 years old lead, reporting in. Just curious if you would tell me I'm no lead material. Now, on one hand, I dropped out and been in the industry (gamedev) for the last ten years. On the other hand, I've actually been on designer and producer positions for the first 6. But then again, on the third hand, I was programming non-stop since 8 and turned in MIX emulator (from Knuth's books) as a school project at 15. So, m…

Of course we can agree on that. However I hope you will also agree with me in that the term "lead" for many things gets thrown around quite easily in the tech world. What annoys me is I often see companies promote an inexperienced (due to age) developer to lead or architect or some other title when they are really not that at all. The company does it to keep the person happy [read: shut them up] with a title rather t…

> However I hope you will also agree with me in that the term "lead" for many things gets thrown around quite easily in the tech world.

Hm, actually I haven't seen it. For me, "lead" has a very exact meaning: a developer who is personally responsible for code that developers people write, and has authority appropriate to that responsibility.

What else can it mean?

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