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The Unemployable Programmer

unemployable.pen.io

461–464 of 464 posts

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#461
post #20

Here's the dirty little secret about "employability" you hardly ever read about in places like HN: It's not about you. It's about your user and what they accomplish with the tools you build for them. It doesn't matter who you are, what you know, what education you have, where you've worked before, what turns you on, or what you think is cool. It only matters what you can do for others. It's really that fucking simple…

THIS! might be THE answer how people works. My life changed significantly when I read this article [1] and realized this is so True. It basically says the same: everybody looks what can you do FOR THEM and that's the main thing that matters. [1]: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-yo...

Really hits the nail on the head.

When writing resumes and doing interview prep, I always try to put myself in the other person's shoes. Would I hire me? Would I be offering what is wanted?

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> outside the web and mobile fields in general Why don't you just change the domain your working in? Why not web dev? If you're a programmer, you should be able to code anything, anywhere, with a bit of effort. I skimmed your post ( https://wmkrug.com/on-the-technical-skills-shortage-and-hiri... ) and honestly I'm not sure. I mean, you're saying that requiring "years of experience" in "specific technology" makes "goo…

> If you're a programmer, you should be able to code anything, anywhere, with a bit of effort. Is that really true? I do database programming, and I feel like I would be absolutely screwed if somebody demanded I do, say, embedded programming for small microprocessors. I guess theoretically I could study up, but it would be at least a year or two before I could be competitive in interviews, right? Maybe I just suck an…

> Is that really true?

Yes, I believe so. And it has nothing to do with genius!

First: of course you wouldn't be able to get senior dev positions in a domain you never worked in. You have to be prepared for this. Pay cut is obvious just after the change, and you need to decide if you can afford it.

Second: it's a matter of how long you're going to stay junior in your new domain. In practice, this is a question of how solid your foundations are and how experienced you are already, and also how determined you are. I believe in what jwz said in "Coders at Work": different domains have different vocabularies, best practices, and myths, but deep down it's still just standard coding. There are variables and loops and branching constructs everywhere, no matter the domain.

> there are genius programmers who are equally competent at embedded systems, mobile development, distributed systems...

I doubt there are many people who are competent in many domains at once. There are such people out there and they're very expensive specialists. Still nothing to do with genius, but rather hard to achieve. However, you don't need to be like that: you just need to change the domain, not master a new one while retaining all your skills specific to the previous domain.

The two most important things for making a switch are your foundations and experience. In your example - embedded dev - you'd need to have a good prior understanding of how CPUs work plus knowledge of C and Asm. Given this you're almost immediately ready to code, after maybe a week of reading the codebase, manuals, and refreshing AT&T asm syntax (for example). You - every programmer, really - should know at least the basics of such things from college or self-study.

The experience is important because it gives you an intuition as to where the potential problems and hurdles in your learning would be. More than anything, experience provides you with an essential skill, a systematic (working for you) way of assessing and learning a new technology. It's much easier to change your domain for the fifth time than it is for the first time. Even if the previous areas you worked in have nothing to do with the one you're learning right now.

For me, programming is a lifelong career choice. That means I have ~50 years of programming still ahead of me. I can't imagine working for such a long time in a single domain! In a bit more than a decade of my professional programming, I already switched domains four times. Despite the fact that I'm self-taught, and my foundations were lacking for quite some time. (I like to believe I fixed this after a couple of years.) It wasn't easy, but if I did it, then I'm sure almost anyone can :-)

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you think finding a good developer is hard, try finding a good developer who also holds a security clearance. Maybe it's harder to find in the States. I had a Canadian clearance for ten years (it wasn't a low level one either), and could never get a job, even with experience in whatever stack they were utilizing. The reason? Couldn't speak french. Even thought the coding language is all either English or math, a…

If it were the difference between getting the job I wanted and not, I would learn French.

If I had the skills to learn French, it would have been done by now (you're forced to take it for at least five years in Canadian schools). Don't know what it is, I can pick up coding languages easily enough, but human languages? No dice.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#464
post #434

I took my linkedin profile down b/c I was tired of dealing with recruiters. I work for a top 5 Fortune 500 company making ~70k 1.5 years out of college in ATL. I've interviewed with a couple companies just to see what it's like out there. I usually ask for some ridiculous salary b/c that's the only way I would leave my current job. I find the interviewing process stupid. I had one company ask me to code up a fully fu…

Do you consider these sorts of interviews fair? I don't see how re-writing something you've already showed them accounts for many things (aside from working under a time constraint)

I don't know if I thought of it as unfair as much as self-defeating on the employer's part. In the specific case of that interview, I told them upfront that I was not an expert in the practice of AngularJS. I understand the concepts of Angular at a very high level, as evidenced by writing a competing framework with more advanced modules and superior algorithms.

Why they would then sit me down and ask me to code up a full site in a hour is beyond me. This is something I would think is a legit request of a candidate who came in saying they were an Angular expert. But why waste your time on person who has already told you they don't have that skill set?

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