Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only • Hacker News Board

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#461

Post by xentronium » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:45 PM UTC

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

While we're at it, let's please rename touch, finger and fsck. These names are horribly suggestive.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#462

Post by rosser » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:48 PM UTC

LinXitoW wrote: post #458

joe_the_user wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the off-chance that you somehow don't get the really basic implications here, let me explain it on a simple level. "Bro Pages" associate this piece of software with bros, men. Such an association can imply that the creators and/or user of the pages will be "bros", men, as opposed to women. That could be "just a joke" if you didn't have a significant, visible people of guys who are obnoxious and immature enough to…

how are "man" pages better?

"Man pages" is short for "manual pages". You know, as in, "read the...", or even RTFM?

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#463

Post by akx » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:49 PM UTC

NigelTufnel wrote: post #52

I like the idea: basically, it's a "kind of Stack Overflow in your shell". The "bro" name is great actually - made #1 on the front page just because of it.

That's howdoi. https://github.com/gleitz/howdoi

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#464

Post by paul » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:49 PM UTC

mtrimpe wrote: post #387

paul wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evil is teaching people to view themselves as weak victims at every available opportunity.

Wait; did you just define calling out a needlessly offensive name as evil? You do realise that would sort of be making the exact point I was trying to make, right? Or am I missing some seriously self-deprecating joke here?

Words are meaningless without definition.

You say that the word "bro" is needlessly offensive. Let me ask you, where is your balance point? What is the right level of offensive? The cost of censorship is real, and teaching people to be helpless victims does more harm than any word ever could.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#465

Post by sharpneli » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:51 PM UTC

benatkin wrote: post #90

enjo wrote: post #8

This is great. I'm really just looking for examples most of the time I'm looking through a man page anyways. As for the "bro"trevorsy that is brewing in these comments. Lighten up for crying out loud.

"Lighten up" doesn't solve anything. I'm not against jokes but the implying man in man pages means male and not an abbreviation of manual is exclusionary. http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/

"Lighten up" might be her pet peeve. My personal pet peeve is "someone might get offended". Just as she is tired of being told "lighten up" I'm somewhat tired of always having to be careful lest someone gets offended.

I think it's fundamental difference in personalities. Some also want really heavy age limits of software and video. Some also want to censor the internet and some do not.

I'm actually tempted to name personal projects with similar names as the 'bro' project, not because I would actually endorse the culture, but because I dislike those that come barging in saying that someone might get offended even more.

I get pretty much as annoyed of offended persons as I do with those that would seriously dismiss anyone based on their gender.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#466

Post by reallyseriously » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:51 PM UTC

Steuard wrote: post #409

overgard wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except: the joke isn't even directed at women. Women aren't being asked to "take the joke" here because it has nothing to do with women. The only tie to women here is from self proclaimed social justice warriors decrying the fact that someone might call something "bro".

Ok, you've got me confused now. You just said, 'Women aren't being asked to "take the joke" here' . But in your previous comment that I was replying to, you said, 'My argument is that women have a sense of humor and we don't have to infantilize them by acting like they can't take a joke.' Which is it?

If I may cut in, he's saying "bro" is poking fun at other men so it has nothing to do with making a joke at the expense of women. At the same time, all people, both men and women can take aka understand "the joke" so others don't need to protect women from it like they are children without adult reasoning abilities.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#467

Post by darkandbrooding » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:52 PM UTC

yeukhon wrote: post #397

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

Sorry, risking a crusade comes to my doorstep and downvote me to the minimum, here is a true rant: I want to express my paranoia here. I really hate when people have to bring up this gender issue in every discussion a name that sounds male-only. I am just saying: "stop raising the issue like we are on a crusade." The author has the right to choose a name and it can be that the author's geninue intent to use the name…

The use of [Debatably Volatile Term] (hereafter DVT) is poor branding for a project or product, unless the cultural baggage associated with DVT aligns with the purpose of the project/product.

Assume that DVT has different connotative definitions to different audiences. If some of those connotative definitions are negative, then the use of DVT as a brand name will repel people who primarily associate DVT with that negative connotation.

Let's say that you decide to publish a project, and you choose a DVT that has positive connotations to you. If people point out that DVT has negative connotations they are not necessarily associating you with those negative connotations, they might merely be pointing out the weakness of DVT in branding.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#468

Post by rosser » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:52 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #277

overgard wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, lets throw away our sense of humor and wordplay because there are theoretically people that might be offended (maybe, kindof. You know. In theory.). (N.B. the people that seem to be offended so far are offended on other peoples behalf..) Isn't it way more offensive to assume that women are such dainty delicate creatures that like, they won't get the joke?

I took a poll of the other person in our hackerspace right now: she thinks this is funny. >Isn't it way more offensive to assume that women are such dainty delicate creatures that like, they won't get the joke? I think so. Every female hacker I've ever talked to has expressed that their worst fear is people acting differently around them. They want to get treated like humans , not like outsiders. Banishing any sort o…

Your anecdata, voluntary, sample-size-of-one survey has completely changed my mind. I feel terrible for having thought this was tacky before. To whom do I submit my abject apologies?

EDIT: Also:

Banishing any sort of word play because "the women"...

Straw-man.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#469

Post by LinXitoW » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:52 PM UTC

belluchan wrote: post #16

dewitt wrote: post #4

Is the "bro" intended to be ironic, or are the creators actually not aware that the term is used to represent the worst (most misogynistic, most crass, least mature, least dependable) people currently flocking to the industry? It is by its very definition exclusionary. I suppose "brogrammers" might be a target audience, but the concept of the tool itself is pretty good for just about anyone. Shame about the name.

Indeed, man is short for manual. It has nothing to do with men, or beards or bros crushing code. The term "bro" when it comes to programming really needs to go away.

a) How about "brochure"? b) Someone that runs for the hills when seeing a command called "bro", will also run from "man" even before they now about eithers meaning. Of course, these poeple don't exist, because anyone using this is a grown up man or woman.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#470

Post by LinXitoW » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 10:54 PM UTC

natch wrote: post #200

paul wrote: post #155

Awesome idea. Shame about the humorless nature of this community. To me, a "bro" is a dumb, fratboy version of a man, which makes the name hilariously perfect. If you're feeling oppressed and excluded by a command name, your real problems lie elsewhere.

I'm not feeling oppressed. The problem isn't me feeling oppressed, it's other people feeling oppressed. Poor choice of language can set up an exclusionary environment. To you, this may be funny. To me, your accusation of humorlessness reminds me of people who engage in sexually harassing "jokes" in the workplace, and then try to get away with it by using "humor" as an excuse. You aren't the one who gets to decide whe…

Why would this hypothetically offended person not by offended by "man"? They would not use it(as offended as they are), therefore they'd never learn it meant "manual", just as they wouldn't learn that "bro" is short for "brochure"....right?