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Coin

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Re: Coin

#461

Post by Nursie »

bdamm wrote: post #420
Nursie wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EMV transaction process has "application selection" as one of its early stages, and some cards do contain multiple applications. However AFAICT this is never across banks or across schemes. So you may get a card that has (say) a Mastercard application on it for domestic use and another for foreign use. In theory, you could slam mastercard, visa, amex, credit, debit, whatever else you want, all on the one chip. De…

There are three tricks involved with this. One, you may not be able to download the card app from one card and upload it to another. My GlobalCard fu is not well honed enough to tell you what ADPU you'd need to invoke in order to try, but it goes against the goals of the product to allow this anyway. Two, if a credit card company provides you with an EMV card, it's got a private key loaded into the card, and may have…

1) Agree, you can't get at various bits of data that must be present in order for the card to be able to do what it does. Most likely sits in private 'files' that READ DATA can't access.

2) Yup, and combined with '1' this means that you'd have to get the banks to do it

3) You'd have to get some more cross-scheme standards about the crypto capabilities sorted out. I estimate we could have all the schemes in agreement by... 2025? Or is that optimistic?

The benefit would only be to the consumer, in the same way that Coin may benefit people, however any method of doing this with EMV would present some sort of extra attack surface and that's generally Bad(TM).

Re: Coin

#462

Post by simonrobb »

bsimpson wrote: post #332
tedivm wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many credit card companies are starting to issue new cards which are completely flat, making it impossible to make imprint. My new CapitalOne card is an example of this. Is your company planning on refusing to do business with them?

My girlfriend's family wanted to rent bikes at Blazing Saddles in SF and the cashiers there threw a big fit when they realized her card wasn't imprintable. They wouldn't photocopy it or write the number down, they just flat-out declined the business.

I recently used a temporary travel card at Blazing Saddles, and that wasn't imprintable but they didn't make any note of it. They may have changed their policies.

Re: Coin

#463

Post by gambiting »

gnaffle wrote: post #398
Kiro wrote: post #23

Swipe only? What is this, 1980?

I think copying an NFC or smartcard is slightly more complicated :)

I think he meant that swipe-only cards are a dying breed(at least here in EU) and most places don't even take them anymore. If your card does not have a chip+pin system it won't be accepted anymore, even if it's a Visa or Mastercard card.

Re: Coin

#464

Post by cmelbye »

bjackman wrote: post #428
avree wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, why would we want chip+pin in the US?

What's the opposition to it? I've had chip+PIN my whole life in fact I didn't know until today that the US was different - how do your cashpoints work?

I don't know what a cashpoint is, but in the US you swipe your card and type in a PIN number when buying something or getting cash from an ATM.

EDIT: It seems as if it's different at restaurants. Here, we give the card to the waiter/waitress and they return with a receipt to sign.

Re: Coin

#465

Post by ahlatimer »

steven2012 wrote: post #450
Nursie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the US hasn't adopted EMV. It's not perfect, but it has cut down fraud massively here in Europe. They're very hard to clone (I won't say impossible, but attacks against EMV have not generally been of this nature) and the transaction records at both ends will tell you whether the actual, real card was there. The liability is more clear-cut as a result. If the customer claims the charge was unauthorise…

EMV where you need to input a PIN Number is simply a way for VISA/MC to push all the liability onto the customers for stolen credit cards. If a purchase is made with the credit card and PIN, then the issuing bank can simply let the liability fall on the customer, instead of the bank eating the costs, like how it's done today.

The banks don't eat the costs -- the merchants do.

Re: Coin

#466

Post by baddox »

rfnslyr wrote: post #387
bsimpson wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My girlfriend's family wanted to rent bikes at Blazing Saddles in SF and the cashiers there threw a big fit when they realized her card wasn't imprintable. They wouldn't photocopy it or write the number down, they just flat-out declined the business.

Their loss really.

It's both parties' loss.

Re: Coin

#467

Post by rexreed »

desas wrote: post #385
thevdude wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I spent a ton of money on bellroy wallet. I've got the slimmest wallet in the office!

I've got a TGT for $13, it's a band of elastic with a layer of leather stitched to it. It's that slim I often think I've lost it, until I put my hand in my pocket.

We've got a winner - best solution to the "too many cards in the wallet". [1]

[1] http://www.tightstore.com/

Re: Coin

#468

Post by baddox »

nlh wrote: post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

How do you explain the plethora of online stores, including massive and presumably legitimate ones like Amazon, which accept Visa and other major credit cards?

Re: Coin

#469

Post by itsravi »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #409
fekberg wrote: post #392

This is very neat and a super cool idea. However, there's no chip? I try to avoid non-chip cards as much as I can for security reasons. One more thing that crossed my mind is, what happens if you give this to the waiter, the waiter goes away to handle your payment and it happens to be outside of reach of your bluetooth ping; then you will most likely become worried that the waiter ran away with your card, or you will…

Well, don't give the card to the waiter? I was honestly spooked when my colleagues handed over their credit card to a waiter when I was in the US a while ago, leaving it out of their sight and hands for a while. We're warned in TV adverts here to never hand over your card - it could get skimmed by the attendant behind the counter. Less of a risk now that the magnetic strip is hardly used anymore, but still. Give some…

Handing over your card to the waiters is standard in the US. You are basically trusting the waiter to not skim/copy the card. In the case that it is skimmed, the fraud policies I've experienced are very favorable to the consumer.

I was surprised to see in Quebec City that all the stores/restaurants had portable card machines they brought to you. That does make a lot more sense to me.

Re: Coin

#470

Post by baddox »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #68

I wonder how this would fare in an ATM. What happens if the ATM accidentally presses the card selection button? If the ATM gobbles the card, now you've effectively lost your entire wallet. What happens if the cashier presses the card selection button while running your card too? Oops, now your boss wants to know why you've just paid for your groceries on the business credit card and why you've cloned your business cr…

> Oops, now your boss wants to know why you've just paid for your groceries on the business credit card and why you've cloned your business credit card!! The first can be an innocent mistake, but the second can be grounds for disciplinary action.

What's your point? If you're not allowed to clone your business credit card, and you do, of course there will be disciplinary action. That would be true if you used this "coin" or any other method to create the clone.

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