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The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

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Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#461

Post by duskdozer »

intended wrote: post #349
somenameforme wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're straw manning most people by trying to insist upon this, as most Americans support a ban on social media for children. [1] That turns into the overwhelming majority if you consider only Americans with children. And the percent of Americans that oppose things like age verification for the usage of social media sites is in the single digits. So it will most likely happen especially because you are certainly righ…

Conversations on age verification tend to split into 2 streams. Conversations where the root submission talks about failures at social media firms and the evidence of harms, or evidence from trials. Conversations on the attacks against freedom and privacy. I see very little hope that an actual rebuttal or alternative to the desire to muzzle tech will be forged, because the two conversation streams seem to rarely inte…

The issue is that their opinions are not wrong but are incomplete. Exactly the things that make "social media" - now equated with "algorithmic engagement-optimized social media" - harmful to teens make it harmful to adults. You can protect both children and privacy by restricting the harmful behavior. But that is the conspiracy: the issue is framed so that this solution is completely ignored. Not that I expect it to get anywhere close to happening, though.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#462

Post by testfrequency »

dawn3727 wrote: post #460
testfrequency wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where in the world is your ideal country, that is doing everything right. Genuinely curious as it sounds like you want accessible weapons + unfiltered reach of speech with no side effects.

Come to China; it is recognized worldwide as one of the safest countries.

Safety is one topic, but this person is also discussing censorship and corruption.

As much as I like visiting China for leisure, I could personally never live there. I agree the healthcare and safety are great in China though. It’s the same reasons I could never live in places like Dubai or Singapore.

Safety is not a #1 priority for me in the places I choose to live.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#463

Post by steve_gh »

csnover wrote: post #291
intrasight wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those in tech who study this already understand the need to hardware attestation. Everyone else will understand soon enough. Old hardware will have to be grandfathered. Old cars don't track us and that has created a market for old cars. Hardware age attestation will be a long timeframe project. The current work should be towards standards that can get us there. Finally, anonymity didn't exist for my grandparents. It…

> Finally, anonymity didn't exist for my grandparents. Your grandparents could walk to the next town over and give themselves a different name and nobody would ever know who they were. They could get a job, be paid in cash, and deposit that money in a bank account with no KYC. They could drop a letter in a public mailbox without a return address, or put up posters at night, or make phone calls from public telephones.…

Absolutely true, but (and importantly) the friction (i.e. effort) required to do these things were so much greater.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#464

Post by KaiserPro »

chr15m wrote: post #254

The right people to protect children are those responsible for them - their parents and guardians. If there is a problem with children not being sufficiently protected, that is the level at which to solve it. Give families tools and information to do so.

> Give families tools and information to do so.

The problem is, agreement on those tools is hard to find.

"I want to be able to pen my kid into a digital walled garden, so that they cannot see $bad stuff until the right age"

that seems normal right? nothing contraversial.

The issue is, implementing that is really fucking hard. For mobile phones, largely thats already been done in the UK. You need to opt out of the nanny proxy before you can get porn and reddit.

The issue is, as soon as you get on the wifi, all of those controls disappear. So how do you stop that? if you're an idiot (and the person leading the OSA was an idiot) you do what the UK did. You put in legal tools to "age gate" the internet _at source_ rather than at delivery (like mobile phones)

so yes give people the tool, but if you're not giving techincal guidance, and just saying NO NO NO NO, OSA is what you get.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#466

Post by akimbostrawman »

testfrequency wrote: post #456
akimbostrawman wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in addition to police shooting and killing civilians If you look at actual statistics you know why it keeps happening. The chance to be shot if you don't act or live like them is miniscule. >You’re not afraid to walk to your local for a pint and be shot in the head by a cop I suppose, right? No "just" scared to open my mouth or defend myself or family with the little to none legal weaponary left that still exists fr…

Where in the world is your ideal country, that is doing everything right. Genuinely curious as it sounds like you want accessible weapons + unfiltered reach of speech with no side effects.

There obviously does not exist such a country and neither country are working towards it. I rather worry about being shot during a traffic stop if I give them a reason such as acting out than simply opening my mouth.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#467

Post by pipes »

tim333 wrote: post #438

I'd dispute there is a UK war on anonymity just because they've tried to stop showing kids porn and the like. The UK has always been kind of pro anonymity - there was ID during WW2 but it was scrapped after. There have been revolts against ID cards, you don't have to carry a driving license to drive and things like that. We've always had child protection though - film certificates, over 18 to buy porn mags etc. The n…

You are measuring only the inconvenience you have directly experienced. Not the impact on wider society.

Whistle blowers, journalists, religious apostates, people unsure about their sexuality all rely on annonimity on the internet.

I can't find the Times article but government officials have clearly stated that this isn't about protecting children, it's about controlling political discourse online. They are now floating the idea of forcing YouTube to give "trusted" public service news sources prominence. Again to control the discourse. That includes the BBC, which I personally have completely lost trust in.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/plans-for-prominence-of-t...

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#468

Post by red_admiral »

trashb wrote: post #429
zmmmmm wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the weird thing about it all is that age is a bad proxy in the first place for a child's level of safety in interacting with online content. Some kids are super mature at 11 and others still need protection at 16. For some reason the world has fixated on "years alive" as a perfect measure of vulnerability and now are doggedly pursuing it. Even if perfect age verification is implemented, kids will be harmed. Because t…

> others still need protection at 16 Other still need protection at 30, or in fact in my opinion also a lot of people above 50 (that didn't grow up with the internet around) are not prepared for what is out there. Also there are parents that are "underage". Those are not considered either. I agree it is a very arbitrary limit indeed, but it seems there is no other good proxy so for a lot of people it will be choosing…

It's the same principle as the age of consent. It'll always be arbitrary, but that's still better than not having a limit at all.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#469

Post by pipes »

ytoawwhra92 wrote: post #284
chr15m wrote: post #254

The right people to protect children are those responsible for them - their parents and guardians. If there is a problem with children not being sufficiently protected, that is the level at which to solve it. Give families tools and information to do so.

No ID checks at clubs, bars, or other adults-only venues. No school zone speed limits, or protected crossings on streets near schools. No requirements for railings on public balconies, fencing around public pools, protective covers over drains or other holes in the ground. Parents/guardians can just supervise. Sounds great!

None of those come with the downside of a permanently stored record of my conversations attached to ID.

Re: The UK's war on anonymity has come to America

#470

Post by yuumei »

tim333 wrote: post #438

I'd dispute there is a UK war on anonymity just because they've tried to stop showing kids porn and the like. The UK has always been kind of pro anonymity - there was ID during WW2 but it was scrapped after. There have been revolts against ID cards, you don't have to carry a driving license to drive and things like that. We've always had child protection though - film certificates, over 18 to buy porn mags etc. The n…

What country have you been living in? The UK is most certainly at war with anonymity: one of the highest CCTV countries in the world, key disclosure, OSA, KYC means yes you do need to scan your passport/ID now for any financial institution, Apple stopping full device encryption, the only thing left is ID cards and we will have no anonymity at all.
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