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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not correct. jongjong is correct that a nonprofit does not have owners in the sense that a for-profit has owners. Nonprofits are dedicated to their mission, and are run by a board of directors. You cannot have a % ownership in a nonprofit because its resources must be used exclusively to carry out its mission. You could have a % control in its decision making process.

They're correct about the equity ownership bit, but not in their argument that there's an implicit public claim of control.

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#462

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

It is possible for Musk to appeal, but success is vanishingly unlikely. He doesn't have to win to succeed. The richest man on the planet can keep his enemies tied up in court needlessly until the day he dies.

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone seriously still believe this? I do. It’s not his singular focus. But he continues to personally invest himself in pushing the boundaries of human spacefaring capability. That goal seems more meaningful to him that it does to e.g. Bezos, who seems to have a rocket company to look cool.

I know there's a risk when Musk's name comes up that everyone takes "all against" or "all for" approach - very polarising figure. But I see a lot of that announcement, and the others someone else pointed to as his "aspirational, but ultimately never going to happen" goals - whether he believes the claims are achievable, or not, he says these things to energise people to working/paying for him to try It costs him litt…

Tesla is falling to pieces?

https://stocks.apple.com/symbol/TSLA

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extreme smartness has its own failure modes

I'm not convinced he's all that smart. Space datacenters seems like an unbelievably stupid idea to me, and I cannot imagine anyone who is ostensibly surrounded by tech seriously considering it. Well, no one sober anyway.

He's been smart at self-promotion and growing (certain kinds of) businesses. But when it comes to non-executive work he did himself, he did a completely mediocre internet directory, and that's about it. No-one would have heard of him if he didn't go into the business side.

Things like space datacenters are probably just part of the promotion side. It pumps up share prices for a gullible public. Where's he's been clever is in creating companies that do enough real things to convince many people that he might be able to pull off the unrealistic things as well.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a lot less dumb if you can drastically reduce the launch costs AND drastically increase the launch mass and size. If the Starship thing works out, he will have achieved that. No, it's still dumb. No matter how cheap they manage to make SpaceX launches realistically, there's really no situation that a space datacenter makes any sense compared to putting datacenters in, for example, Antarctica. If they built in…

It gets you out of the reach of the suffocating regulatory states here on Earth.

Some of those states could project power in orbit if they wanted to. I'm not normally a hawk but I'll make an exception in this case.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#466

Musk may have lost round 1, but Musk has a HUGE pile of cash, and Open AI is a borrower from everybody and their brothers. Almost all the principle people left Open AI already.

Musk doesn’t seem particularly good at lawsuits. Remember when he was suing Twitter to get out of having to buy them? Perhaps he lacks good lawyers, perhaps he just can’t find substance and he’s filling out of spite.

Remember Delaware? Where he not only won on appeal but provoked an exodus of companies out of Delaware?

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk promises a lot of things that never come to fruition.

Have we colonized Mars yet? Asking for a friend.

I don't understand this thinking at all.

I share all the disillusionment and cynicism about Musk, shared here by others.

But he has also done amazing things. When someone declares they are going to create a Martian colony, something literally "out of this world", and against all odds makes unbelievable progress for years, including re-usable rockets that return and land vertically, more efficient powerful engines, and fast operational turnarounds, while making orbital travel mundane, hanging a criticism of schedules on the weak hook of "yet" is myopic.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#468
post #440

I wonder if Elon ever expected to win, or even cared about winning. It's been obvious for a while that OpenAI becoming for-profit historically wasn't really an issue for him, despite what he says in public these days. I imagine that for him the goal was always to damage OpenAI's reputation in order to distract them from progress or raising capital, giving xAI more time to catch up. I don't think it's a coincidence he…

yeah, he had a secret plan to file his lawsuit late. Real n-dimensional chess here.

I don't say this in a "what a brilliant tactician he is" sense. I think AI in general caught him off guard and he was upset they didn't let him run OpenAI.

I'm sure his lawyers told him he wasn't likely to win, so have to assume embarrassment of OpenAI was the goal.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they replacing their onboard chips with NVidia chips? AFAICT Tesla has increased investment in their own chip ambitions. Dojo specifically being cut is a massive failure if you are motivated to believe that, but otherwise it looks more like a subset of custom chip work that didn't pay off and the company has appropriately cut their losses. The onboard "AI2/3/4/5" chips are clearly the bigger investment (they can…

We are just a few months away from the 10 year anniversary of Elon's coast-to-coast full self driving promise made in 2016. If your idea of Elon Musks AI success is to lean on THAT side of Tesla... well, good luck with that.

Tesla is one of 3 companies currently operating a driverless taxi service.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#470
post #184

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

I'm unfamiliar with the US legal system but do they really need a jury and a trial to determine whether the claims are barred by the statute of limitations? Couldn't this be decided by a judge before trial?

Bit late, but since I don’t see any correct answers here - no a jury is not required here. The judge chose to convene an *advisory* jury here — likely to strengthen the factual findings of the court and maybe to save the court itself some time/effort.
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