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New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#461

Post by mrighele »

zarzavat wrote: post #454
inglor_cz wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single left-wing march flies a lot of flags as well, only they are different flags. Political movements in general don't seem to be particularly immune to flag shagging , only the colors vary a lot. But I am pretty sure that Banksy means right-wing flag worship as well. He is a master of "provocative conformism" and wouldn't produce anything that would get him into a real risk of controversy. His art is very fi…

I suppose it's true that the left-wing equivalent is the Palestinian flag, or the centrist equivalent is the Ukrainian flag, however this usually comes in the form of a sticker or the odd flag flown from a house window here and there, rather than a row of flags hung from every lamp post on a street. Quantity has quality all of its own. Although many different causes use flags for promotion, the obsession that certain…

> the obsession that certain elements of the English right have with the English flag is at a completely different level.

You may want to check the obsession that people on the left have with the Palestinian flag. Any situation is good to show it off even when it has nothing to do with Palestine.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#462

Post by Intermernet »

mootothemax wrote: post #283
gerdesj wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flag is unadorned and I think you can extend your interpretation to include the proliferation of flags which have a minimal "history". Banksy is from Bris'l which is sort of north Somerset (Somerset keeps on morphing faster than a sci-fi shapeshifter). Cornwall has had a white cross on a black flag since 18something. Devon decided to adopt a black edged white cross on a green flag. I remember seeing Devon flag ca…

> what is Avon? Welsh for river.

You avon a chwerthin?

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#463

Post by AnimalMuppet »

lynx97 wrote: post #332
danparsonson wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which is a blatant false equivalence, to be clear.

Matthew 7:3–5 I am not religious, but this quote keeps coming up... And people keep forgetting about it.

Keep going. Look at Matthew 7:6. "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you."

That is (in this context), don't bother trying to give truth (or even have a reasonable conversation) with those who simply will not listen. Zealots, shill, propagandists... it's like talking to a brick wall. If anyone has a technique for getting them to stop being a brick wall and start actually engaging with what you're saying, I'd like to know what it is.

You can call it "transmit only mode" (hat tip Patrick McClure). When you realize that the person you're talking to is in transmit only mode, you understand how the conversation is going to go if you continue it.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#464

Post by tim333 »

danw1979 wrote: post #406
rjinman wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Most people I know who have flags proudly displayed are left wing and their flags are usually one of: the Palestinian flag, the ukrainian flag, the LGBT rainbow flag, or the trans flag.

He’s a British artist, the sculpture is in London and the phenomenon of raising of St George’s Cross on every lamppost on every roundabout is a recent initiative of the British right. Most people will be linking the statement of this sculpture to this activity. (I’m more likely to see the white rose of the House of York in “opposition” to the flag shaggers than a rainbow or anything else, in my neck of the woods, but…

I live in central London where the the statue is and I think can confidently say there are more other flags than St George cross ones.

Personally I kind of thought of Russia which is about the only lot marching off to war with Russian and Z flags all over.

The St George lot mostly just moan about immigrants.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#465

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

declan_roberts wrote: post #99

Things were more fun when they were actually transgressive and not just the established doctrine of those in power.

Banksy was never subtle, but this one is extraordinarily ham-fisted. Very meme-able though.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#466

Post by finnthehuman »

foldr wrote: post #372
usrnm wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banksy has been active since the 90s, definitely already famous in the 00s

As shown by this savage Charlie Brooker takedown: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/sep/22/arts.v...

>Renegade urban graffiti artist Banksy is clearly a guffhead of massive proportions, yet he's often feted as a genius straddling the bleeding edge of now. Why? Because his work looks dazzlingly clever to idiots. And apparently that'll do.

- Creator of Black Mirror, 5 years before series premiere

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#467

Post by nephihaha »

teamonkey wrote: post #448
nephihaha wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every parish church in England (more or less) has flown the St. George's cross traditionally for as long as I can remember. There is nothing wrong with that. Conversely, Union Jacks are a major symbol of Loyalism and Orangeism in Ireland, and parts of Scotland, which is an extremely aggressive and "hands on" movement. Union Jacks can be seen in pictures of every far right movement going back a century or more. The Un…

England has a unique position in the Union, and indeed much of the world, where it is seen as an historic and current oppressive force, and our attitude to flags has to acknowledge that context. In Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the Union Flag is a reminder that the UK countries are ultimately run by England, where there isn’t a true acknowledgement that the countries are culturally different, let alone able to…

I do not consider myself English, but Scottish. I remember ?fifteen years ago defending the St. George's Cross from English people arguing against it. The irony!

We do occasionally get billboards with company X saying they support England, but other than that it isn't an issue in Scotland.

Like Billy Bragg says, there is a strong case for reclaiming the English flag from the far right.

The Union Jack in Scotland has a much more complex history, particularly in and around Glasgow where it is connected with extreme loyalism and Orangeism (which is where a lot of the Scottish Reform party vote will come from.) In Northern Ireland, it is hated by a large section of the population. In Wales and Scotland, some independence supporters hate the Union Jack too.

The Union Jack has a strong association with the far right and loyalism, not to mention imperialism and somehow gets a free pass.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#468

Post by simonebrunozzi »

I tend to like Banksy a lot, even in things that are different than his "usual" style and type of work (graffiti), as in this case with a statue.

More generally, I am wondering if anyone has a good explanation of what makes an artist "click" with the world, become famous, and usually raise the price of his/her artwork. I can bet that today it costs a lot to own anything by Banksy, considering that most of his work is not even "detachable" from its original creation point.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#469

Post by plewd »

Lerc wrote: post #62
wartywhoa23 wrote: post #39

Banksy's "anonymity" is a total farce at this point, thoroughly supported by those in power.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Those in power" there are lot's of people who know, but recognise that he has chosen anonymity and see no value in putting a name to the person. It's not so much a secret as it is simply not public.

Not sure what you mean by "not public", given that you can just search it up and find a Reuters article from March giving out his full name and background.

Re: New statue in London, attributed to Banksy, of a suited man, blinded by a flag

#470

Post by dijksterhuis »

kulahan wrote: post #311
dijksterhuis wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i find that passionate certainty can be a good thing in some cases, especially when someone really does know what they are talking about. but fanaticism is more often a problem than not. fanatics tend to not really understand what they're talking about, or twist it to fit what they want it to be about. > Fanaticism: Excessive enthusiasm, unreasoning zeal, or wild and extravagant notions, on any subject, especially re…

I see a similar idea that often gets people talking past each other re: patriotism vs. nationalism

for me, and this is just me, if you have to shout about it then you’re possibly not doing patriotism.
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