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The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

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Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#461

Post by tracker1 »

Mashimo wrote: post #363
tracker1 wrote: post #30

So, I cannot 3d print a squirt gun or a nerf style gun either? This print looks "scary" you cannot print it.

I don't think anyone really knows. Might be something like the slicer is checking the file hash against a (online) list, slices it, signs it and the printer checks the .gcode file if it's signed by a known slicer. A blacklist of very specific models. Make a small change and it will not be detected any more. Maybe the slicer is also required to upload the 3d file and some kind of "looks similar" algorithm will block y…

The irony, is almost anyone with a machine shop can probably fabricate a more effective weapon than a 3D printer, where you might as a gun get one or two less than accurate shots in.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#462

Post by Dig1t »

nine_k wrote: post #276
marcus_holmes wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never lived in a country where people are allowed to keep guns. That scares the crap out of me. Not just because of random strangers. I went through a mental health crisis, and there was a dark time where if I had had a gun I would be dead now. No amount of lockers or safe boxes or mental health tests would have saved me from that gun. And wtf do you need a gun for anyway? I have never, not once, been in a sit…

> And wtf do you need a gun for anyway? One of the reasons that Switzerland, a country te size of Bay Area, with 9M current population, has not been overrun by the many wars in Europe for last 200 years is that every citizen is expected to fight back, without formally joining a military force for that. All men have to serve in the military for a couple of months to get the basic training, obtain and master a small ar…

>Per-capita firearm-related deaths in Switzerland are 7 times lower than in the US

If you break gun violence down in the US by race, you get results that are much closer to Europe.

>Nationally, the U.S. gun homicide rate (per 100,000 people) in 2020 was 26.6 for people identified as Non-Hispanic Black, compared to 2.2 for those identified as Non-Hispanic white and 4.5 for Hispanic individuals of any race.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10209993/

And indeed you can observe the gun homicide rate in Sweden has doubled since 2016 precisely because of demographic change.

Sweden:

2016: 0.301

2017: 0.398

2018: 0.423

2019: 0.438

2020: 0.463

2021:0.430

2022: 0.597

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#463

Post by protocolture »

lordloki wrote: post #441
protocolture wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We are a nation of dangerous freedoms Sell some AI chips to a chinese company lmao. America wasn't even this back when everyone says America was this. America is a bunch of slave and non slave states in a big trench coat, sharing the costs of bullying the rest of first the continent and then the rest of the planet. Yeah some of you have guns big whoop.

Big "those grapes are probably sour anyway" vibes.

"Sure you have grapes but you have nothing else"

From the limited amount of business I have done in both countries, in terms of overall freedom I absolutely stan Canada. The difference is they dont advertise it.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#464

Post by Eisenstein »

remarkEon wrote: post #458
Eisenstein wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think someone like Oswald exists in the present day?

They demonstrably do, multiple of them, and none of them used 3D printed weapons.

So there are people who would have a use for a high powered rifle with limited durability.

> What I'm saying is that no one is going to build a lower in this manner for a firearm chambered in 7.62 and do anything useful/important with it. Maybe the cartridge size here is a distraction, idk, but this isn't a specification that I would consider common and/or useful for 3D printing a firearm.

The fact that no one was caught using such a weapon is irrelevant. You stated that there are people out there who would use it, so your statement that "no one" would want to is untrue.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#465

Post by marcus_holmes »

abeyer wrote: post #460
marcus_holmes wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think it says then?

First, it's a bit of a silly cliché, but a true one, that guns don't kill people, people kill people. The way you've phrased it, even aside from the facts, makes it feel like FUD implying that someone's gun is going to creep up on them in the night. Second, you can just take it from the horse's mouth, since papers give you an abstract stating their findings. An even briefer snippet of what they say themselves there i…

Right, but the basic point - that people who have guns are more likely to die by guns is true, right?

The sophistry about whose gun killed them is kinda moot. They don't actually track whether the gun-owners died by their own gun or not, as you say.

But it's likely, isn't it? We're talking about people who either kill themselves, or kill their family members. It's likely using the gun that's already in the house, rather than a new, different gun being brought in from outside.

And if it is a stranger coming in from outside with a different gun, then doesn't that contradict the entire point of owning a gun? That you can protect yourself and your family from strangers with guns?

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#466

Post by [deleted] »

caconym_ wrote: post #444
jim33442 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk what law in particular, but if this is about flying drones at low altitude in places where other people didn't show up to hear drones buzzing, I'd want it banned whoever is doing it.

No, the regulations I'm referencing have nothing to do with where (in the local sense) you can and can't fly drones. Even if I owned a thousand square miles in the middle of nowhere and wanted to fly a 75mm tinywhoop in the center of my own property, these regulations would affect me exactly the same as they would some jackass taking video of women sunbathing on a crowded beach with an 8" cinelifter. Typically local…

[deleted]

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#467

Post by webnrrd2k »

sheikhnbake wrote: post #456
sheikhnbake wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D gun printing has come a long way in a short amount of time. 3D printed lower receivers can weather several hundred rounds of 7.62 at this point

I stand corrected, the Plastikov V4 has endured 5,000 rounds

It looks like a Plastikov uses a lot of metal Kalashnikov parts that you'd need to get from a kit or machine yourself or something, so I don't think it's really fair to call that gun a 3D printed gun. It uses printed parts, but the barrel, trigger, etc... aren't printed.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#468

Post by remarkEon »

sheikhnbake wrote: post #449
remarkEon wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm saying is that no one is going to build a lower in this manner for a firearm chambered in 7.62 and do anything useful/important with it. Maybe the cartridge size here is a distraction, idk, but this isn't a specification that I would consider common and/or useful for 3D printing a firearm. Even if your nominal intent is just to "finish" a gun with parts you have laying around, it's not going to be something…

I mention 7.62 specifically because most folks not familiar with 3D printed firearms are unaware that such a thing is even possible. 9mm 3DP guns have hit the news cycle repeatedly, less so for higher power cartridges. IIRC, there's a .50 BMG project well underway.

You call these project[s], which I think is very accurate for the higher power cartridges. You sound like you've seen a lot of the videos of 3D printed firearms, and from what I can tell they cluster around 9mm and 5.56. There's probably multiple reasons for that, one of which is that those round sizes are more widely available and cheaper, while another is that it is going to be easier to do than something with higher power. So to maybe simplify my point, the technical challenges and inherent safety issues on 7.62 are higher. Thus, projects they shall remain.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#469

Post by remarkEon »

Eisenstein wrote: post #464
remarkEon wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They demonstrably do, multiple of them, and none of them used 3D printed weapons.

So there are people who would have a use for a high powered rifle with limited durability. > What I'm saying is that no one is going to build a lower in this manner for a firearm chambered in 7.62 and do anything useful/important with it. Maybe the cartridge size here is a distraction, idk, but this isn't a specification that I would consider common and/or useful for 3D printing a firearm. The fact that no one was ca…

>You stated that there are people out there who would use it, so your statement that "no one" would want to is untrue.

Huh? There is no evidence that anyone is using a 3D printed 7.62 weapon system to do crimes. Of the existing evidence, criminals overwhelmingly use conventional firearms. I'm not understanding your point. The would-be and successful assassins in the news the last couple years used standard rifles, ranging from 5.56 to .03-06 in caliber. I think you are assuming that criminals are less sensitive to equipment reliability than they actually are.

Let me put it this way. If 3D printed firearms were such a game changer, they would already be using them at scale. They are not, and these laws are part of a fundamental misunderstanding about how firearms function and how 3D printing technology works.

Re: The dangers of California's legislation to censor 3D printing

#470

Post by tekknik »

simplyluke wrote: post #193
horsawlarway wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, but at some point you're just banning "manufacturing". if someone wants to make a gun... they can. It's not complex to manufacturer simple firearms - we managed it as far back as the freaking 10th century. So why freak out over this, for example, and not CNCs? Or Power tools? Or forges (CHF barrels are a thing too!)?

Washington's legislation that just passed includes a vague ban on possession of any files/instructions on 3d printing and CNC/milling/basically any manufacturing. As far as I can tell it's potentially illegal to own a book on gun manufacturing processes in the state of Washington now if you're not a federally licensed firearms manufacture.

Interestingly the ATF themselves have no issue with homemade firearms so long as you register a serial number
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