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US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

cnet.com

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Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#461
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Axon, on the other hand, does have a decent sized Seattle presence.

Axon seems to be the defacto standard for body cameras but I don't know much about them...

They are formerly known as TASER, after their best known product.

They already had relationships with almost every department in North America so they became an easy choice for bodycams.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like that rapid increase was a return to pre-covid normal. It never spikes above pre-covid. Given the world was returning to normal, this is precisely what you'd expect most trends to look like, something like in-restaurant dining probably looks similar.

As the authors note, their data only goes back to 2018. So “pre-COVID normal” is tough to confirm here. Then we have to figure out why it dropped so much pre-COVID. Because the timeline doesn’t say it can possibly be Flock. Same for the 2023 drop. The timeline simply doesn’t match up with Flock’s rollout.

That’s why I said “how I read this chart is ….” I don’t know what pre2018 looked like either. But on this chart, it was the precovid portion.

Nowhere on here am I seeing how covid caused a spike up, that’s what you said though and signifying our differences in reading the chart that was shown.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no stopping a guy from stealing scrap metal if he thinks it'll pay for his next fix. It's like when you try to keep something from being taken by bolting it down and they just come in and steal the bolts too. Some of that's just a part of life.

The ostensible purpose of the criminal justice system is to stop guys from stealing scrap metal obtained by vandalizing public structures in order to buy drugs. Perhaps by arresting them and locking them in a building with armed guards so they can't vandalize and steal things and also can't get drugs anyway. Insofar as the actual criminal justice system is doing a bad job with this, I want it to do a better job - whi…

It'd be nice to live in a world where the criminal justice system used technologies like these to help prevent theft and vandalism.

And to a certain extent, in our reality, they do.

The problem comes from the fact that these technologies also enable surveillance at a massive scale, and that we have a long history (not only as a country, but as a species) of people abusing these technologies for human rights violations.

When you have the likes of Donald Trump in charge of the country's law enforcement, and he's routinely working with the likes of Larry Ellison and Peter Thiel, all without consequences for the human rights abuses, well, you just can't have things like this. When children use a toy to misbehave, you take the toy away, and that's essentially what's happening here.

Now, if we were to have an actual national dialogue about these abuses and the responsible parties started suffering consequences for their actions, I'd be more open to the use of these tools. But we haven't and likely won't, so...

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ostensible purpose of the criminal justice system is to stop guys from stealing scrap metal obtained by vandalizing public structures in order to buy drugs. Perhaps by arresting them and locking them in a building with armed guards so they can't vandalize and steal things and also can't get drugs anyway. Insofar as the actual criminal justice system is doing a bad job with this, I want it to do a better job - whi…

It'd be nice to live in a world where the criminal justice system used technologies like these to help prevent theft and vandalism. And to a certain extent, in our reality, they do. The problem comes from the fact that these technologies also enable surveillance at a massive scale, and that we have a long history (not only as a country, but as a species) of people abusing these technologies for human rights violation…

If you're comfortable taking on the role of a parent disciplining their child and imposing consequences on misbehaving children, then why not be comfortable with taking on that role against drug addicts stealing copper? The inability to have a copper item out in public because a thief would vandalize and steal it is as much a human rights abuse as being falsely accused of stealing copper by the cops because of public surveillance footage (or whatever specific eventuality you're worried as a result of surveillance cameras existing). Is it a different constitutional framework of laws, a different criminal justice system, that detects and punishes the drug-addicted copper-thief and the corrupt law enforcement official?

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because today it will be used as a first responder. Tomorrow a police officer will suggest that these drones (that we are already using successfully) could be very useful for checking up on that "dangerous" neighborhood.

I'm not really worried about the police. There's mountains of well reinforced legal precedent restricting them. Sure they have violence, but they kind of need to show up to do that. All the other stuff they do runs up against your rights which are really well established. Even the "civil" traffic stuff is pretty hard fought, comparatively. Every other civil enforcer can basically fine you on a whim and then your appe…

The actual problem is that there's a law requiring a permit for kiddie pools with a fine attached, that was mostly unenforced previously, so a lot of people got into the habit of breaking it.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#466
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a stretch for sure. I think the point is that it's a tradeoff of civil liberties in exchange for safety. I think it's an interesting discussion and it's not clear to me what the right answer is. Given the first amendment in the USA, i think once it's cheap enough everyone will be filming everyone all the time. Just look at how many people have ring doorbells.

The first amendment?? Is surveillance speech now? Lets add it to the list: money is speech, surveillance is speech, protesting is NOT speech. Anything I’m missing?

You have a protected right to photograph or film things that are plainly visible from public spaces, including federal buildings, transportation facilities, and police interactions

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#467
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of. Motorola (axon) effectively acts as an integration system for flock and about 20 other services. Motorola's stuff is IMO the bigger problem because it includes access to flock.

Why did you put axon in parens after Motorola?

Honestly I'm not sure. I think I include them under the same umbrella because how often they work together, plus all the systems integration that they have together.

Re: US cities are axing Flock Safety surveillance technology

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central PA is the land of guns and chocolate. that said, I wouldn't be surprised if the Amish already have a small stockpile for practical use cases like hunting and keeping away the English

The Amish are generally pacifist.

pacifist does not mean unarmed
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