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Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

ilga.gov

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Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#461

Post by cowboylowrez »

tt24 wrote: post #459
cowboylowrez wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a terrifically rare term that has never before been used before me (there are now copycats on x/twitter), so I can understand why you might be unfamiliar with it. There are so many subcurrents of meaning and subtlety and to truly understand it would require more dimensions than the current sad state of the average mind can comprehend. I would take you on a guided tour of the profound and terrifying truths that th…

I’ve heard it before, just not sure how it applies here in the way that you’ve used it.

oh I see. the way I'm using it is to mock your posts. now granted I'm not that smart so my mockery isn't going to be very cutting or anything and heck I don't even dislike you, in fact you should consider my mocking of your posts to be sort of a commentary on the general decline of humanity, of which you are just a small and common example. Its not even any sort of indictment of moral failings on your part, in fact you should take it no more seriously than a visit to the zoo to watch the monkeys fling poo. To be more exacting of our relationship, to me I am the visitor and you are a monkey, symbolically speaking of course, but still I would expect that from your vantage point the roles would be reversed and I wouldn't take offense, its a healthy adaptation to take when confronted with opposing viewpoints so far apart that they would probably never be reconciled. Just point and have a chuckle at my expense, thats what I would do if I were you!

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#462

Post by godelski »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #456
godelski wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't change anything I said. But you do bring up another issue people aren't discussing. That the default setting is under 18. So we protect the children from adults by... having no way to actually verify someone is a child? The problem is less kids getting access to porn and more pedos getting accounts to spaces designed for children. Places like Club Penguin or very famously Roblox. Here's the problem, you…

> But you do bring up another issue people aren't discussing. That the default setting is under 18. Some things do that. This law doesn't have a default. If the admin sets all the user accounts to 18+, then the users are stuck with the setting being 18+. > I mean what the fuck happens to IOT devices? Do we just not allow them on the internet? Sounds pretty good to me. But yeah they need a different handling of some m…

  > Some things do that.
I think you're missing the point...

  > Sounds pretty good to me
Really? Be a bit more serious now. There are a lot of things that connect to the internet, and not just for stupid data harvesting reasons. I gave other examples. I think you can understand that this gets pretty hairy pretty quickly. If you don't, then dig in deeper to how the networking is done. You're an older account so I'm assuming you actually understand computers.

  > They do not.
They definitely do. I explicitly stated how that happens too. If you want me to take you seriously you have to respond with something better than "trust me bro".

There is no evidence that these companies are actually handling that data properly. There is a lot of evidence that they are handling it improperly. That data being leaked does in fact, endanger kids.

I'm also unconvinced these things even achieve the goals they claim to be after. Which is keeping pedos away from kids. i.e. the reason I said you're missing the point. So either it is not achieving that goal, or lulling people into a false sense of security. Imagine if Roblox was saying "we don't allow adults on the platform" and so now all the tech illiterate parents and kids think their kids are exclusively talking to other kids. That's just a worse situation than now.

So what do these laws even solve?! I'm serious

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#463

Post by Dylan16807 »

godelski wrote: post #462
Dylan16807 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you do bring up another issue people aren't discussing. That the default setting is under 18. Some things do that. This law doesn't have a default. If the admin sets all the user accounts to 18+, then the users are stuck with the setting being 18+. > I mean what the fuck happens to IOT devices? Do we just not allow them on the internet? Sounds pretty good to me. But yeah they need a different handling of some m…

> Some things do that. I think you're missing the point... > Sounds pretty good to me Really? Be a bit more serious now. There are a lot of things that connect to the internet, and not just for stupid data harvesting reasons. I gave other examples. I think you can understand that this gets pretty hairy pretty quickly. If you don't, then dig in deeper to how the networking is done. You're an older account so I'm assum…

> Be a bit more serious now.

The serious answer is in the next line.

> They definitely do. I explicitly stated how that happens too. [...] data being leaked

Again "Some totally different system could endanger people, but this one doesn't."

Any system that has companies handling personal data and able to leak it is not the system this kind of law talks about.

> false sense of security. Imagine if Roblox was saying

In that situation, Roblox is the problem, not the law.

> So what do these laws even solve?! I'm serious

If widely implemented, a parent can set a single toggle and then the accounts their kids make will all be appropriately restricted.

It wouldn't replace direct checks from the parent on what their kids are doing, but it would greatly reduce the risk profile. And making it simple and built-in means that non-tech-expert parents can set it.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#464

Post by naikrovek »

rkomorn wrote: post #145
nlitened wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy How is this a counter-argument? I often read this, as if there's some international trusted organization of logical thinkers that has approved inclusion of slippery slope to a list of logical fallacies that must never be invoked in a conversation. Every single time five years later it turns out that the slope actually was slippery.

I don't think their comment was meant as a counter-argument. I read it as a call to action: things only go down the slope if they're pushed that way, so now is the time to try and prevent said push.

That is what I meant, yes.

Why do people imagine that I said words I didn’t say, get mad at those words, then reply as if I had said them? This happens all the time.

Humans are stupid and I sincerely believe that we, as a species, will fail because we are so prone to this kind of behavior. We really are a garbage race.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#465

Post by naikrovek »

bombcar wrote: post #142
nlitened wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy How is this a counter-argument? I often read this, as if there's some international trusted organization of logical thinkers that has approved inclusion of slippery slope to a list of logical fallacies that must never be invoked in a conversation. Every single time five years later it turns out that the slope actually was slippery.

Everyone who rants about slippery slopes being a fallacy also loves the boiling frog analogy (which technically might be a bit closer to what they're going for).

> Everyone who rants about slippery slopes being a fallacy also loves the boiling frog analogy

I didn’t. So why do you say “everyone”? Stop imagining people saying things that they didn’t actually say.

Every step we take down this “slope” is intentional and happens because there is more force pushing things down the slope than there is force resisting that push. There is no slippage, just people who refuse to act in their own best interests letting people who are acting in their own best interests do whatever they want.

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#466

Post by naikrovek »

areoform wrote: post #324
tzs wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you have overlooked is that this type of bill is being introduced in states that have the strongest data protection and privacy laws, such as California and Colorado, and now Illinois. This is happening after several other states have introduced age verification laws that actually require age verification which typically involves uploading your identity documents to each website that is required to verify your a…

https://publicintegrity.org/politics/state-politics/copy-pas... https://nationalpress.org/topic/model-legislation-statehouse... https://www.thegazette.com/opinion/guest-columnists/lawmaker... I have looked into hiring lobbyists. I have seen how the sausage gets made. Pop quiz, who do you think funds https://www.digitalchildhoodalliance.org/ ? https://ifstudies.org/in-the-news/over-50-conservative-group... :) https://…

Did you know that the way people like you respond in posts like this pushes everyone else away with a strength that is unmatched by anything known anything man.

Black holes have less strength to destroy goodwill than posts like yours.

The tone of your post makes people dislike you intensely, makes them ignore you, and go about their business. But they’ll remember you and the repulsion they feel to posts like yours (which all of you saying this message seem to use) whenever they even think someone is saying something like you’re saying here.

You guys are your own worst enemies because you can’t see how fucking abrasive your posts are

:)

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#467

Post by godelski »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #463
godelski wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some things do that. I think you're missing the point... > Sounds pretty good to me Really? Be a bit more serious now. There are a lot of things that connect to the internet, and not just for stupid data harvesting reasons. I gave other examples. I think you can understand that this gets pretty hairy pretty quickly. If you don't, then dig in deeper to how the networking is done. You're an older account so I'm assum…

> Be a bit more serious now. The serious answer is in the next line. > They definitely do. I explicitly stated how that happens too. [...] data being leaked Again "Some totally different system could endanger people, but this one doesn't." Any system that has companies handling personal data and able to leak it is not the system this kind of law talks about . > false sense of security. Imagine if Roblox was saying In…

  >> Be a bit more serious now.

  > The serious answer is in the next line.
  > ...
  > Again "Some totally different system could endanger people, but this one doesn't."

  >> If you want me to take you seriously you have to respond with something better than "trust me bro".
I do have a hard time taking you seriously

  > If widely implemented, a parent can set a single toggle and then the accounts their kids make will all be appropriately restricted.
HOW

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#468

Post by mittensc »

watwut wrote: post #422
mittensc wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the kid boots up linux off a USB stick and makes it all pointless

Overwhelming majority of kids wont. The idea that the average teenager even knows what those words mean is not realistic.

kids would have time and motivation... they will learn pretty fast

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#469

Post by [deleted] »

godelski wrote: post #467
Dylan16807 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be a bit more serious now. The serious answer is in the next line. > They definitely do. I explicitly stated how that happens too. [...] data being leaked Again "Some totally different system could endanger people, but this one doesn't." Any system that has companies handling personal data and able to leak it is not the system this kind of law talks about . > false sense of security. Imagine if Roblox was saying In…

>> Be a bit more serious now. > The serious answer is in the next line. > ... > Again "Some totally different system could endanger people, but this one doesn't." >> If you want me to take you seriously you have to respond with something better than "trust me bro". I do have a hard time taking you seriously > If widely implemented, a parent can set a single toggle and then the accounts their kids make will all be app…

[deleted]

Re: Illinois Introducing Operating System Account Age Bill

#470

Post by Dylan16807 »

godelski wrote: post #467
Dylan16807 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be a bit more serious now. The serious answer is in the next line. > They definitely do. I explicitly stated how that happens too. [...] data being leaked Again "Some totally different system could endanger people, but this one doesn't." Any system that has companies handling personal data and able to leak it is not the system this kind of law talks about . > false sense of security. Imagine if Roblox was saying In…

>> Be a bit more serious now. > The serious answer is in the next line. > ... > Again "Some totally different system could endanger people, but this one doesn't." >> If you want me to take you seriously you have to respond with something better than "trust me bro". I do have a hard time taking you seriously > If widely implemented, a parent can set a single toggle and then the accounts their kids make will all be app…

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47434546

Up here you wrote two options.

People keep telling you option 1 is the correct one, and that it's not actually useless.

You keep describing privacy problems that only exist with option 2.

This law is not option 2. Stop interpreting people as if they're badly defending option 2. They're not.

> HOW

They take an OS where only admins can change the age setting. They set the age on a non-admin account, which they give their child access to. The OS passes the age setting along to programs, which pass it along to services that need to restrict behavior.

This is not the same as how it works today. It's impossible for a parent to do this today. The best they can do is try to keep track of every account their child has and dig through the settings manually.

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