Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

cbs12.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 703 posts

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#461

Post by matheusmoreira »

SteveNuts wrote: post #355
Larrikin wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is ever since COVID the cops don't do their job and everyone drives terribly.

I am constantly amazed at how many people blatantly run red lights now. It used to be that people would sometimes press their luck on a yellow a little bit, but now it'll be red for several seconds and people will still just drive right on through. I'd love if the police enforced this insanely dangerous behavior instead of trying to catch people going 10 over on the highway.

It depends. Traffic lights are just mutexes. They are there to stop traffic so that other traffic may pass safely. There's no point if there aren't any other cars. Obviously anyone running a light on a busy intersection deserves to get fined but if you know the terrain, have good visibility into the road where the other traffic comes from and can clearly see there are no vehicles present, running the red light is utterly harmless.

In my city, certain traffic lights literally turn off at night. There's not enough traffic flowing to justify them.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#462

Post by ggiigg »

aziaziazi wrote: post #343
ggiigg wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue such enforcement does not need automation and such automation is often for revenue generation vs saftey focused. Also, I am a bit biased here after working at flock.

Is there a non-automatic light enforcement other than placing a policemen at every light - which makes the light useless? Revenu generation is a bonus point: in my country taxes that incentive smokers to quit are directed to healthcare and most of the speeding tickets revenue goes to road maintenance and safety. I’d prefer a public handling but the trend is privatization with everything : from health to education to…

> California's new speed camera pilot (AB 645) explicitly solves for this.

Your mixing up states. California's law from above comment is NOT about running red lights.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#463

Post by unselect5917 »

jaredklewis wrote: post #317
sowbug wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consistent, low-impact enforcement is better at preventing unwanted behavior than the rare and severe but also capricious enforcement performed by human police. It can also give permission for unwanted behavior. Cf. the Haifa study, where the rate of late pickups increased when daycares added a fine. One explanation is the fine turned a complex moral obligation into an ordinary financial transaction.

The Haifa daycare study can’t be used to extrapolate much. They fined parents (IIRC) ~$3 per late pickup. Rerun the study with a $300 fine and let’s see how it pans out. It’s an interesting finding, but that then people take it to mean that fines don’t work (no matter their size) is insane.

I don't like paltry sums like this. $300 is a significant financial impact to someone who's barely making ends meet, and absolutely nothing at all to a billionaire. "If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the poor."

Make it a tiny % of net worth, with a modest minimum and watch EVERYONE obey. Or at least something meaningful to everyone, or don't make it a fine. Use some other carrot or stick.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#464

Post by matheusmoreira »

andrepd wrote: post #400
sejje wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully other states don't follow this pattern; I don't think the government should be installing surveillance arrays, even if it's "for the children" or public safety. Trading a little liberty for a little safety and all that.

That's ridiculous, a radar that snaps a photo when a car goes over the speed limit is not , by any conceivable definition, a surveillance array. There are real surveillance arrays, please worry about those instead.

It absolutely is a surveillance array. It is trivial to record the time and license plates of every vehicle captured by the camera and fully map out their movements.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#465

Post by underlipton »

senordevnyc wrote: post #356
hamdingers wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Then the bill requires that all those fines you pay go towards street calming infrastructure, eventually making it physically impossible (or at least very uncomfortable) for you to continue speeding. Kind of like if enough parents paid the late pickup fee, eventually the daycare could afford a van for dropoffs.

It seems like this rarely happens. The fines become another stream of income, and reliance on that income kills any incentive to fully eliminate the behavior the fines are ostensibly meant to discourage.

Random thought: this also accurately describes the financialization of home ownership. It was supposed to provide stability in shelter, and instead created a market that's completely unaffordable to the prime home-buying generations, in favor of protecting those who've come to depend on unconscionable valuations.

No one, gun to their head and hand on a Bible, should defend a status quo where the only way to afford a median house is to have twice the median income.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#466

Post by unselect5917 »

db48x wrote: post #413
toast0 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A perpendicular intersection uses way less area than a roundabout. That's the basic reason. Roundabouts have better throughput than a busy 4-way stop, but less throughput than a signaled intersection if the timing and sensing is reasonable (many signaled intersections don't have reasonable sensing). Roundabouts also have some pretty nasty worst case wait times; I'm really not looking forward to the state installing o…

> A perpendicular intersection uses way less area than a roundabout. That’s not actually true. It’s entirely possible for them to have the same footprint.

Nitpicking: roundabouts that small may be entirely impassible to truck hauling a standard trailer.

Personally, I think we could replace a LOT of stoplights with roundabouts. Way better throughput and faster travel for everyone.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#467

Post by unselect5917 »

0x3f wrote: post #43
t1234s wrote: post #32

Having driven in the UK and coming back to the US I miss all of the roundabouts. Any reason (aside from contractor profits) towns use 4-way traffic light systems vs a roundabout and some yield signs?

Having driven in both, Americans don't take naturally to roundabouts and it would be difficult to teach all the existing drivers about them. Same in the UK when they add new rules: most drivers remain completely unaware of them.

The only difference is Americans aren't yet used to them because they're uncommon. You fix that by making them common. It's not like there's a genetic difference in Europe that makes them capable of roundabouts and Americans not.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#468

Post by LorenPechtel »

brewdad wrote: post #95
Retric wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systems don’t necessarily react based on the legal situation. A red light camera that’s improperly installed, poorly maintained, etc could essentially act randomly from a drivers perspective.

Which is why they are supposed to have a sworn officer review the camera footage. I have certainly had a camera flash me while waiting to turn right on red, still outside the intersection. They never sent me a ticket however since I had clearly not done anything illegal.

There are too many examples of them rubber-stamping.

Re: Florida judge rules red light camera tickets are unconstitutional

#469

Post by SteveNuts »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #461
SteveNuts wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am constantly amazed at how many people blatantly run red lights now. It used to be that people would sometimes press their luck on a yellow a little bit, but now it'll be red for several seconds and people will still just drive right on through. I'd love if the police enforced this insanely dangerous behavior instead of trying to catch people going 10 over on the highway.

It depends. Traffic lights are just mutexes. They are there to stop traffic so that other traffic may pass safely. There's no point if there aren't any other cars. Obviously anyone running a light on a busy intersection deserves to get fined but if you know the terrain, have good visibility into the road where the other traffic comes from and can clearly see there are no vehicles present, running the red light is utt…

I can’t tell if you’re joking or seriously trying to justify running red lights.
Post reply on HN