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The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

cnn.com

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Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#461

Post by hjkl0 »

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wrote: post #394
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

People still believe October 7th attacks weren't intentionally allowed? There is a lot of legitimate debate on this topic as the security failures are unusual and are still officially being discussed in Israel.

People like you still spread stupid lies about it, but no one with any sense believes them. There is no legitimate debate on the subject, only propaganda, and it comes from Benjamin Netanyahu directly.

Obviously, it’s the same stupidity that “allowed” the 7th of October attacks to happen. These people are way too scared and hateful of Palestinians to conspire with them like this. They allowed it to happen through sheer incompetence. They just let their guard down, quite literally.

If they could actually cooperate well enough to work together on something like the 7th of October of attacks, which were under active planning for at least two years and involved thousands of highly trained men, don’t you think they’d be able to cooperate on something positive too?

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#464

Post by yoavm »

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wrote: post #394
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

People still believe October 7th attacks weren't intentionally allowed? There is a lot of legitimate debate on this topic as the security failures are unusual and are still officially being discussed in Israel.

What a pile of non-sense. I despise literally everyone in the Israeli government, but suggesting this was allowed by anyone in the government/military/intelligence is the lowest low form of ridiculous conspiracy theory.

Nothing like this is "officially discussed in Israel", unless you mean "repeatedly officially denied".

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#465

Post by merelythere »

vcryan wrote: post #432
Arun2009 wrote: post #426

I am just befuddled by how much of this violence is directly motivated by religious concerns, both on the side of Iran and on the side of Israel and USA. I have been reading on the topic of shunyata or emptiness in Mahayana Buddhism, and have been uncomfortably observing just how much of the artifacts we take to be real and substantial in the world are just "made up". They don't have an inherent reality of their own…

It had nothing to do with religion, that element is used to distract.

They are following their books like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#467

Post by propagandist »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #406
0x600613 wrote: post #324

2 countries with the best war technologies on earth must work together to have a war with embargod-country-for-decades. And those 2 counties are founder of Board of Peace.

> 2 countries with the best war technologies on earth must work together to have a war with embargod-country-for-decades It gives us a regional coalition partner. That's never a bad thing, regardless of circumstances.

I'd say being an apartheid state and conducting a live-streamed genocide could possibly be a minor issue. Just a PR issue mind, Lord knows we've given up on our souls long ago.

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#468

Post by jmyeet »

sega_sai wrote: post #363

The take home message from this is that the only way for any country to be secure is to have nuclear weapons.

I just want to expand on this.

1. According to the US and Israel, Iran has been a week away from having nuclear weapons for at least 34 years [1];

2. It's quite clear Iran could've developed nuclear weapons but chose not to. I actually think was a mistake. The real lesson from the so-called War on Terror was that only nuclear weapons will preserve your regime (ie Norht Korea);

3. Israel is a nuclear power. It's widely believed that Israel first obtained weapons grade Uranium by stealing it from the US in the 1960s [2];

4. In a just world, people would hang for what we did to Iran in 1953, 1978-79, the Iran-Iraq War and sanctions (which are a sanitized way of saying "we're starving you"); and

5. The current round of demands include Iran dismantling its ballistic missile program. This is because the 12 day war was a strategic and military disaster for the US and Israel.

Israel has a multi-layered missile defence shield. People usually talk about Iron Dome but that's just for shooting down small rockets. Separate layers exist for long-range and ballistic missiles (eg David's Sling, Arrow-2, Arrow-3). In recent times the US has complemented these with the ship-borne THAAD system.

Even with all this protection, Iran responded to the unprovoked attacks of the 12-day war by sending just enough ballistic missiles to overwhelm the defences, basically saying "if we have to, we can hit Israel".

Many suspect that the real reason the US negotiated an end to the 12 day war was because both Israel and the US were running cirtically low on the munitions for THAAD and Israel's missile defence shield. You can't just quickly make more either. Reportedly that will take over a year to get replacements.

Thing is, pretty much all of this missile defence technology is about to become obsolete once hypersonic missiles become more widespread, which is going to happen pretty soon. I suspect that's a big part of why the US and Israel are now trying so desperately to topple the regime and turn Iran into a fail-state like Somalia or Yemen.

I'm not normally one to encourage nuclear proliferation but when it's the only thing the US will listen to, what choice do countries have?

[1]: https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2025/6/18/the-history-of-n...

[2]: https://thebulletin.org/2014/04/did-israel-steal-bomb-grade-...

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#469

Post by dijit »

JasonADrury wrote: post #423
epolanski wrote: post #351

The president of peace btw. I'm baffled at the lack of calls to boycott the Fifa world cup in US. And at the double standards applied to Russians and Israelis in their wars of aggression. I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror.

>I guess Israel can play the "October 7th" card at least which was an insane horror. If October 7th is an "insane horror", what words will suffice to describe the decades of far worse crimes committed by Israel? Considering the scale of suffering caused by this conflict, October 7th was just a small blip.

"small blip" isn't a political take, it's just wrong.

October 7th was the deadliest per capita terrorist attack since the Global Terrorism Database started recording in 1970 [1]. Globally, it's third on the all-time list (behind only 9/11 and one IS attack [1]. The confirmed death toll from Israeli social security data (not government press releases) is 1,139, which still makes it 31 times deadlier than the next worst attack in Israeli history [2][3].

You invoked scale. Those are the numbers. They don't say what you wanted them to say.

And for the record: one atrocity not excusing another cuts both ways. Nobody here argued otherwise. What was actually said (by the person you're replying to) is that you cannot use scale as your framework whilst hand-waving away the single largest data point in the argument.

If you mean the Nakba, Sabra and Shatila, or the current death toll in Gaza — those are serious. But "decades of far worse crimes" doing the work of making October 7th a "small blip" doesn't follow. You can have a long ledger of serious grievances and still recognise that one morning where 1,139 people were massacred (including at a music festival, in kibbutz bedrooms, in bomb shelters) was not a blip. It was the deadliest single terrorist attack per capita since records began.

There is no moral argument for October 7th, and the reaction is disproportionate and unjustifiable - but inevitable. We should all be so unlucky to have neighbours like those, and nobody knows how we would all act if we did.

[1] https://www.csis.org/analysis/hamass-october-7-attack-visual...

[2] https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231215-israel-social...

[3] https://www.csis.org/analysis/hamass-october-7-attack-visual...

Re: The United States and Israel have launched a major attack on Iran

#470

Post by throwaw12 »

alex_low wrote: post #382

I'm surprised this has not been mentioned, for context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iran_massacres

Are you saying those protested actually got funded by Israel and because Iran killed them, now Israel is retaliating?

Now I really wonder if those protests were indeed fueled and funded by Israel, because we have seen videos of mosques being burned down by protestors, which is strange for Shia Muslim country, even if they don't like their government

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