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Banned in California

bannedincalifornia.org

461–470 of 749 posts

Re: Banned in California

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are the incorrect choices. You CAN actually do these processes, and still keep the environment clean. I believe in procedural symmetry: if you ACTUALLY care about people and the environment, then you wouldn't let other poorer do these thing. The USA being richer, can afford to do it right and safer, not through regulation, but through process. There is a difference. So what would you do if you ACTUALLY cared ab…

> The USA being richer, can afford to do it right and safer We cannot. We are richer because we don't do it. We export it to areas so poor they view the environmental impact as a fair trade-off for being able to eat.

Correct. We are also richer because we won't do it. The EPA has saved countless lives, at least did, it's been basically dismantled.

Re: Banned in California

#462
Some points on this page are simply incorrect.

For instance, NC milling is done in California. Printed circuit board manufacturing is done in California. Small-scale integrated circuit fabrication is done.

Re: Banned in California

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are the incorrect choices. You CAN actually do these processes, and still keep the environment clean. I believe in procedural symmetry: if you ACTUALLY care about people and the environment, then you wouldn't let other poorer do these thing. The USA being richer, can afford to do it right and safer, not through regulation, but through process. There is a difference. So what would you do if you ACTUALLY cared ab…

USA is already effectively priced out of manufacturing due to high labor costs. Doing things with the "correct choices" simply makes the impossible even more so.

Shipbuilding in particular has negligible labour costs, even for rich countries. Cost to build a ship is about 80% materials costs.

Re: Banned in California

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California produces ~$350B in manufacturing GDP. It is the #1 state in manufacturing jobs in the US.

By its sheer size and population it is probably #1 in almost anything you care to rank.

Damn, don't tell the guy from Texas.

Re: Banned in California

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is already effectively priced out of manufacturing due to high labor costs. Doing things with the "correct choices" simply makes the impossible even more so.

You sure it is about labor prices? These are highly capital intensive businesses. You may want to ask your LLM to do very detailed research.

Ouch!

Re: Banned in California

#466
Reading through this discussion and speaking from professional experience I have to say that the real challenge isn’t just specific bans, it’s the administrative cost and the inertia of a permitting paradigm designed in the 1960s and 70s. We’re still managing complexity with relics of a regulatory architecture built for a different era — one with paper files, siloed agencies, and a bias toward “check-the-box” compliance rather than real world outcomes.

That’s why so many solutions feel like de facto bans: not because the environmental goal isn’t valid, but because the cost of compliance in time, paperwork, and legal risk creates a barrier that only well-resourced actors can navigate. The real economic deadweight loss isn’t always in the policy text — it’s in the thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars spent just to prove you did the minimum.

There’s enormous opportunity right now with data tools and AI agents for qualitative assessment. We don’t have to keep defaulting to rigid checklists that presume every context is the same. With modern sensors, realtime monitoring, and AI that can synthesize qualitative evidence with quantitative data, we can finally shift toward performance-based permits that look at actual impacts rather than adherence to outdated procedural triggers.

Imagine a system where:

Sensors and connected data streams show real emissions or ecological outcomes,

AI agents help translate diverse evidence into risk profiles,

Permits adapt based on performance instead of fixed thresholds divorced from context.

That’s not just a tech fantasy — that’s a pathway to reducing administrative drag while improving environmental protection. The status quo isn’t sustainable environmentally or economically. If we cling to 20th-century process dogma, we’ll keep seeing well-intentioned policies backfire into de facto bans, regulatory bottlenecks, and inequitable access to compliance.

Re: Banned in California

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think there's something to be gained here? There are a lot of cheap and easy checks this content fails that it represents a well formed argument based on reality.

Post these “checks” that failed. Don’t hide behind some bullshit about the author being motivated

There is no rational basis for anyone else to expend any effort refuting anything when the author has not said anything in the first place.

The article contains no citations, and so may be presumed 100% false by default.

"may be presumed", as in, sure it might actually contain some other mix of true and false, but it doesn't matter what that mix actually is. That only matters in some other article written by someone else that citates any of it's assertions.

This piece is the same as if monkeys typed stuff at random and some of it could possibly happen to be the same as something true. It doesn't mean the monkeys made a valid point, and no one should spend one second either defending or refuting it.

Re: Banned in California

#468
post #248

This is whining from someone that doesn't want to be responsible for the externality of pollution that these manufacturing facilities generate. The regulations are to stop the pollution, if you can manufacture without polluting, then you'll comply and be able to manufacture. The problem is that there are other regulatory environments where the people aren't protected from pollution. What would fix that is enforcing t…

China has reduced its pollution massively since the 90s while aggressively expanding its industrial output. And they have done it without excessive bureaucracy and delays in construction. In the US environmental laws are not about the environment at all. They are there to enrich lawyers who profit from multi year permitting processes and lawsuits.

Re: Banned in California

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe reworded as “He has skin in the game” > so obviously his point can’t be true > so obviously he’s biased and we can’t do the mental work of sifting > so obviously I can dismiss this as teleologically false. Please don’t be so lazy you guys. There is something to be gained here.

> so obviously he’s biased and we can’t do the mental work of sifting This guy, with an obvious bias, created a website that misrepresents the situation in California (by implying things are banned or "nearly impossible" when in actuality they just take time/effort), while also failing to show the specific regulations or requirements for any of it. Without supplying that kind of information this website is little bet…

The lack of citations makes it not just easy to dismiss but an obligation to dismiss.

Your downvotes are invalid.

Re: Banned in California

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Earth has a functionally infinite amount of water. If it's dirty, clean it.

That's not how it works. Transporting water from a different location will be an extra cost. Cleaning will be an extra cost. And cleaning is also not perfect. Those who will need water, are usually not those who can afford all this. So at the end you are just moving the problems to someone else, out of greed and ignorance.

We've been building canals for thousands of years.
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