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Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

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Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#461

Post by staticassertion »

dsego wrote: post #453
staticassertion wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using a Mac basically full time for years now, due to work. It's easily the worst UX and it's sort of shocking, after decades of hearing "it just works" or whatever. Hidden windows, hidden desktops , obscure keyboard shortcuts, etc. I actually don't even know how to use the mac for the most part, I've learned to live in the terminal. I contrast this with Linux where I can just... idk, browse files? Where wi…

> I figured out Or you could maybe learn how to use the OS, in linux lingo RTFM. I don't want to be rude, but the critique was very flippant, the arguments vague, all about expectations based on years using a different OS, doesn't seem you want to give it a fair chance.

This is pretty funny.

> the arguments vague

I gave both generalized and highly specific cases where I felt the UX failed. I referenced principles of UX as well as literal "here is what my experience was in a concrete story".

> , all about expectations based on years using a different OS

No? I mean, again, funny. I explained how I've been using MacOS for years. Actually a decade, now that I count it out.

> doesn't seem you want to give it a fair chance.

a decade lol

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#462

Post by staticassertion »

hbn wrote: post #459
staticassertion wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using a Mac basically full time for years now, due to work. It's easily the worst UX and it's sort of shocking, after decades of hearing "it just works" or whatever. Hidden windows, hidden desktops , obscure keyboard shortcuts, etc. I actually don't even know how to use the mac for the most part, I've learned to live in the terminal. I contrast this with Linux where I can just... idk, browse files? Where wi…

You're making multiple desktops sound very confusing when it's really not. Every desktop OS has them and macOS' implementation is quite good. You want bad virtual desktops, try Windows. Maybe you're better suited for an iPad.

I've used multiple desktops before. I love virtual desktops. They really shouldn't be confusing. It's a testament to the bad UX of macs that they are.

The fact that a full screen window creates a whole new virtual desktop is hilarious and I dare you to justify it.

Appeals to "Windows is bad" or whatever mean nothing to me. Stupid comments like "get good" mean nothing to me.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#463

Post by bsimpson »

staticassertion wrote: post #431
olivierestsage wrote: post #297

It really has gotten to the point where Linux offers the best option for a sane desktop experience. Watching Windows and macOS implode while KDE and Gnome slowly get better and better has really been something. Not quite at the point I'd recommend them for grandma and grandpa, but not that far off, either.

I've been using a Mac basically full time for years now, due to work. It's easily the worst UX and it's sort of shocking, after decades of hearing "it just works" or whatever. Hidden windows, hidden desktops , obscure keyboard shortcuts, etc. I actually don't even know how to use the mac for the most part, I've learned to live in the terminal. I contrast this with Linux where I can just... idk, browse files? Where wi…

Years ago, they changed the behavior of the green button to be "fullscreen into a separate space." As someone who never uses spaces, this is never what I want.

You can escape it by moving your cursor to the top edge of the screen and clicking the green button on the titlebar that appears to exit fullscreen.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#464

Post by idle_zealot »

staticassertion wrote: post #462
hbn wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making multiple desktops sound very confusing when it's really not. Every desktop OS has them and macOS' implementation is quite good. You want bad virtual desktops, try Windows. Maybe you're better suited for an iPad.

I've used multiple desktops before. I love virtual desktops. They really shouldn't be confusing. It's a testament to the bad UX of macs that they are. The fact that a full screen window creates a whole new virtual desktop is hilarious and I dare you to justify it. Appeals to "Windows is bad" or whatever mean nothing to me. Stupid comments like "get good" mean nothing to me.

> The fact that a full screen window creates a whole new virtual desktop is hilarious and I dare you to justify it.

I can kind of see the idea here. The alternative is that all the other windows in the working desktop get hidden behind the fullscreen window. That's pretty bad UX. I personally avoid it on Linux by always moving a window to its own desktop before fullscreening it.

That said, the implementation is awful, and exposes the rotten foundations of Mac's window management paradigm.

IMO floating windows always fall apart and should be reserved for modals and transient dialog boxes only. Everything gets a lot easier to understand when applications can't occlude one another or occupy the same space.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#465

Post by staticassertion »

idle_zealot wrote: post #464
staticassertion wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used multiple desktops before. I love virtual desktops. They really shouldn't be confusing. It's a testament to the bad UX of macs that they are. The fact that a full screen window creates a whole new virtual desktop is hilarious and I dare you to justify it. Appeals to "Windows is bad" or whatever mean nothing to me. Stupid comments like "get good" mean nothing to me.

> The fact that a full screen window creates a whole new virtual desktop is hilarious and I dare you to justify it. I can kind of see the idea here. The alternative is that all the other windows in the working desktop get hidden behind the fullscreen window. That's pretty bad UX. I personally avoid it on Linux by always moving a window to its own desktop before fullscreening it. That said, the implementation is awful…

> The alternative is that all the other windows in the working desktop get hidden behind the fullscreen window. That's pretty bad UX.

How? It means I could have a full screen video and then overlay something smaller over it, or maintain my alt-tab behavior as it plays in the background, etc. I'd maintain the same UX. Why would full screen have such a weird behavior?

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#466

Post by staticassertion »

bsimpson wrote: post #463
staticassertion wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using a Mac basically full time for years now, due to work. It's easily the worst UX and it's sort of shocking, after decades of hearing "it just works" or whatever. Hidden windows, hidden desktops , obscure keyboard shortcuts, etc. I actually don't even know how to use the mac for the most part, I've learned to live in the terminal. I contrast this with Linux where I can just... idk, browse files? Where wi…

Years ago, they changed the behavior of the green button to be "fullscreen into a separate space." As someone who never uses spaces, this is never what I want. You can escape it by moving your cursor to the top edge of the screen and clicking the green button on the titlebar that appears to exit fullscreen.

In this case, because I had docked my laptop, the entire window moved to a virtual desktop that didn't actually map to a real desktop. Meaning that the video call continued in a virtual desktop that I literally could not see, that I could not mouse over. I don't know if that's just a multiple-monitor bug or whatever but the behavior is stupid even without that failure mode.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#467

Post by bfbf »

staticassertion wrote: post #431
olivierestsage wrote: post #297

It really has gotten to the point where Linux offers the best option for a sane desktop experience. Watching Windows and macOS implode while KDE and Gnome slowly get better and better has really been something. Not quite at the point I'd recommend them for grandma and grandpa, but not that far off, either.

I've been using a Mac basically full time for years now, due to work. It's easily the worst UX and it's sort of shocking, after decades of hearing "it just works" or whatever. Hidden windows, hidden desktops , obscure keyboard shortcuts, etc. I actually don't even know how to use the mac for the most part, I've learned to live in the terminal. I contrast this with Linux where I can just... idk, browse files? Where wi…

MacOS definitely has its issues but this just makes it sound like you have different expectations of how an OS should work. Different isn’t always bad. Hiding applications is a pretty key concept in MacOS. Shortcuts are pretty straightforward? Cmd+H to hide, Cmd+Q to quit. Spaces aren’t hidden- there’s lots of ways to access them, but it seems you haven’t bothered to learn them. In your example pressing ctrl+right would have switched the first full screen space. You could also have right clicked the Chrome icon in the dock for a list of windows.

BTW the dock doesn’t have to be hidden, and idk if it was a typo but alt+tab isn’t a default shortcut. Command is the key used for system shortcuts, so maybe you should have tried that? Like yeah it’s different but that doesn’t make it bad. If you been using it for 10 years without figuring that out…

—-

I’m with you on the 1st party apps though, and the stupid corners on Tahoe.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#468

Post by hbn »

staticassertion wrote: post #462
hbn wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making multiple desktops sound very confusing when it's really not. Every desktop OS has them and macOS' implementation is quite good. You want bad virtual desktops, try Windows. Maybe you're better suited for an iPad.

I've used multiple desktops before. I love virtual desktops. They really shouldn't be confusing. It's a testament to the bad UX of macs that they are. The fact that a full screen window creates a whole new virtual desktop is hilarious and I dare you to justify it. Appeals to "Windows is bad" or whatever mean nothing to me. Stupid comments like "get good" mean nothing to me.

It sounds like you don't actually want the app in fullscreen. Fullscreen is "I only want to be in this one app window with no distractions." I pretty much only use it for watching videos.

If you want the window taking up the entire screen while staying on the desktop, double click the window chrome and it'll expand to fill the screen. And if you want the dock not taking up space, there's a setting to auto hide the dock (which I always enable)

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#469

Post by Forgeties79 »

dsego wrote: post #455
Forgeties79 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I miss 2016 apple

When they ditched all the ports and added the butterfly keyboard?

While I get the butterfly keyboard hate (though mine is so far still perfectly fine) the USB-C ports were amazing. I have a 2016 MBpro and that thing still cooks really well. As somebody who worked in video production those ports were a godsend. No more waiting around for footage to transfer all the damn time. Complete game changer. Plus with one or two quality docks I could plug-in literally anything I ever needed. With the AMD GPU i could also edit pretty beefy 4K with no proxies most of the time. In 2016/2017 that was pretty awesome. Plus last good intel machine they made IMO, so good compatibility with lots of software, target display mode for old iMacs, windows if I wanted it, etc.

Probably my favorite laptop I’ve ever owned. Powerful machine, still sees work, runs great.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#470

Post by bfbf »

staticassertion wrote: post #465
idle_zealot wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that a full screen window creates a whole new virtual desktop is hilarious and I dare you to justify it. I can kind of see the idea here. The alternative is that all the other windows in the working desktop get hidden behind the fullscreen window. That's pretty bad UX. I personally avoid it on Linux by always moving a window to its own desktop before fullscreening it. That said, the implementation is awful…

> The alternative is that all the other windows in the working desktop get hidden behind the fullscreen window. That's pretty bad UX. How? It means I could have a full screen video and then overlay something smaller over it, or maintain my alt-tab behavior as it plays in the background, etc. I'd maintain the same UX. Why would full screen have such a weird behavior?

If you click the full screen window, your little window is now behind it…
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