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Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

blog.alaindichiappari.dev

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Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#461

Post by anon22981 »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #435
skybrian wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What can we do to reduce the size of the codebase" seems like an interesting prompt to try.

There's an interesting phenomenon I noticed with the "skeptics". They're constantly using what-ifs (aka goalpost moving), but the interesting thing is that those exact same what-ifs were "solved" earlier, but dismissed as "not good enough". This exact thing about optimisation has been shown years ago. "Here's a function, make it faster". With "glue" to test the function, and it kinda worked even with GPT4 era models.…

I use LLM’s daily and agents occasionally. They are useful, but there is no need to move any goal posts; they easily do shit work still in 2026.

All my coworkers use agents extensively in the backend and the amount of shit code, bad tests and bugs has skyrocketed.

Couple that with a domain (medicine) where our customer in some cases needs to validate the application’s behaviour extensively and it’s a fucking disaster —- very expensive iteration instead of doing it well upfront.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#462

Post by arathis »

rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

The hard thing to watch is developers grapple with the idea that what makes them special isn’t so special anymore.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#463

Post by n4r9 »

kaydub wrote: post #436
wtetzner wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been writing professional code for 20 years at this point, using many languages, libraries, frameworks, etc. But I certainly don't use them all at the same time. This also just feels like we're solving the wrong problem. Using AI doesn't fix any of it, it just makes it easier to make the problem worse faster.

You haven't worked somewhere where you're working on multiple different microservices each written by different teams in different languages?

That absolutely sounds like a case where AI will only plaster over the problem and eventually make it worse.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#464

Post by johannes1234321 »

rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

The interesting aspect is: that allows people who couldn't do it before to build tools for their department needs. Where in the past they would have needed a budget for going to the IT department and then do complex processes to transfer the requirements from business needs into a form the developers understand.

Now they can quickly build simple tools. Yes, they are bad from software quality pov, but they solve problems.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#465

Post by layer8 »

leptons wrote: post #428
layer8 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe software systems will become more like biological organisms. Huge complexity with parts bordering on chaos, but still working reasonably well most of the time, until entropy takes its course.

It's already like that, for a long time. Humans are quite capable of creating complex systems that become unwieldy the bigger they get. No one person can understand all of it. I will offer the AT&T billing system as an example that I'm all too familiar with as a customer, due to the pain it causes me. So many ridiculous problems with that system, it's been around a long time, and it is just so screwball.

Biological systems are vastly more complex, and less brittle, in the sense that killing a single cell doesn't cause system failure like for example removing an object file from a program often would. Just look at the complexity of a single sell, and try to imagine what an analog of similar complexity would be in software.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#466

Post by 13415 »

nubg wrote: post #366

To the people who are against AI programming, honest question: why do you not program in assembly? Can you really say "you" "programmed" anything at all if a compiler wrote your binaries? This is a 100% honest question. Because whatever your justification to this is, it can probably be used for AI programmers using temperature 0.0 as well, just one abstraction level higher. I'm 100% honestly looking forward to findin…

I have to sign off on the code. When I use compilers and 3rd-party libraries, I choose them very carefully. When I use an AI assistant, I have to check that it produces a good enough quality that I can sign off on it and stand behind it as if it was my own. I cannot do that with large amounts of agentic code, only with small enough snippets that I can overlook and check.

You can put it another way: If my customers lose data because of a nasty bug and it was because there was an error in the compiler, it wasn't my fault (unless I chose some unfinished hobby compiler with no reputation at all). If my AI assistant wrote the bug and I didn't spot it, the bug was definitely my fault and is fully my responsibility.

"It wasn't me, my AI assistant did it" is a lousy excuse.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#467

Post by bsder »

straydusk wrote: post #247
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

Have you considered that betting against the models and ecosystem improving might be a bad bet, and you might be the one who is in for a rude awakening?

My favorite open source projects still have zillions of open bugs. Lots of projects are shutting down accepting external contributions because the PRs are so terrible. Wipro still isn't bankrupt.

Cheerleading is nice. Seeing the bug counts from my favorite projects significantly decrease would be evidence.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#468

Post by oblio »

literalAardvark wrote: post #286
HighGoldstein wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Correct. Those who wave away AI and refuse to engrain it into their workflows are going to be left behind in the dust. Similar to those who waved away crypto and are now left behind in the dust, yes?

Might not be the best counter example since everyone who has bought BTC before Jan 2024 is now in massive profit.

Bitcoin is one of the few real survivors of the crypto crash and even it has failed in its mission. Read what Satoshi meant and what Bitcoin is now.

It's not a coin, it's gold bars.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#470

Post by agosta »

mark242 wrote: post #215
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. Then, as part of the session, you would artificially introduce a bug into the system, then run into the bug…

Believe the re:Invent session is this one but correct me if I'm wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMPe622eGY0
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