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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

blog.ncase.me

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#461
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the problem was brain chemistry, wouldn't it be with them from birth until treatment Ha, of course it can be! Our brain chemistry is not stable through our life! Many children are born with epilepsy, but some people develop it later in life. epilepsy, like all neurological disorders are nature AND nurture, genes AND the environment. Using your roller coaster analogy, there very well may be genes that control; ho…

> " Our brain chemistry is not stable through our life! " Citation requested. Because, y'know, it's not like your leg muscles suddenly don't work from age 40-50 and then start working again and we say it's because of unstable "leg chemistry". It's not like your stomach, liver, kidneys, suddenly stop working after you lose your job or your life partner and we say it's both inexplicable and because of a deficit of "bod…

> Citation requested. Because, y'know, it's not like your leg muscles suddenly don't work from age 40-50 and then start working again and we say it's because of unstable "leg chemistry".

Ohhh, leg chemistry, good choice! You know that leg "chemistry" is control by neurotransmitter release, yes? So you must have never heard of Familial Periodic Paralysis then. Let me tell you what happens with that, because it happened to me while taking Seroquel. Familial Periodic Paralysis is also called Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis and is due to mutations in the gene that encodes the alpha-subunit of the skeletal muscle sodium channel (SCN4A).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1338/

"The paralytic attacks are characterized by decreased muscle tone (flaccidity) more marked proximally than distally with normal to decreased deep tendon reflexes. The episodes develop over minutes to hours and last several minutes to several days with spontaneous recovery.

Some individuals have only one episode in a lifetime; more commonly, crises occur repeatedly: daily, weekly, monthly, or less often. The major triggering factors are cessation of effort following strenuous exercise and carbohydrate-rich evening meals. "

Look at that! Their muscles stopped and stared working again!

And yes, this happened to me while taking seroquel because it lowered my potassium so much it affected my nervous system.

Any good psychiatrist will tell you that they have no idea what is going on. But that does not mean neurotransmitters cannot be changed and that they do not effect behavior.

> I will lump "genetics" in as another pet-hate unsatisfyingly crappy non-explanation that people tag onto whatever they want so they can stop thinking about it further.

As someone who, as an armature geneticist, helped design a genetic study for Stanford, can I say that I put more energy into thinking about these things over the last 45 years than you can even imagine?

>Or "I have this personality because my parents and grandparents had it, it's genetic" is an explanation.

I have my hair color, height, skin color, all the physical traits from my parents, so why do you think the brain is not physical as well? Or or adrenal system? The brain is effected by genetics, this is true as has been shown clearly as a risk for schizophrenia. I have no idea why people think our mood, which is dictated by our thoughts which are created and sensed by our brain, which is a physical organ, does not have anything to do with genetics and neurotransmitters.

and then you go on to talk about epigenetics, like that matters by genes don't? Do you know that genes control the epigentic response? Genes like DNMT1? So people with differences in DNMT1 will have different epigenetic responses?

> I agree with this. Society likes assuming everyone is the same.

So how are we different? nature AND nurture. Genes AND environment. I agree the solution to these problems are wrong, but your solution are just as bad as the ones your are prescribing.

Listen, there are times when our neurtranmitters are supposed to be different, like when we are in pain or when some one dies. But some people, like me, have these changes regardless of the situation and we can like them to other environmental factors like diet, sunlight, weather, etc.

I could tell you whey and why I think am so sensitive to the world but I doubt you would listen, because no one listens, because everyone knows.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#462

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

> I won the SSRI lottery I guess, the side effect are sweaty feet, vivid dreams and a dry mouth. That's all.

Yes, you did. Had the same medication and got tremors and stiffness so bad I thought I had early-onset Parkinson. Could hardly unlock the door without dropping the keys five or six times. Fortunately, it ceased when I stopped the SSRI.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#463
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re "citalopram" and "SSRI lottery I guess"...in fact, citalopram is not a true SSRI and in fact no SSRI is only an SSRI as they also on, at increasing doses, many other neurotransmitters like norepinephprine and Muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. However, citalopram specifically has a big effect on the histaminegma the sigma-1 receptor. I will focus on the sigma-1 receptor: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/arti…

have u ever tried niacin?

Yes. Made me manic. You know we make niacin in our own bodies, from tryptophan, down the kynurenine pathway. Sine many of the enzymes that are in this pathway need B6 and B2, being low in these may lower endogenous niacin in the body.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353319033/figure/fi...

Many people I know, when tested, were low in B6. That is more important to me than niacin.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#464
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lexapro saved my life

Lexapro made me feel like I was randomly being dropped down an elevator shaft for 6 months after I stopped taking it. I’m glad it worked for you, and am not minimizing that, but these medications have a side effects profile a mile long and should be a therapy of last resort in my opinion.

The problem with antidepressants are that while we know, more or less, what they do, we don't know why they work for some and not for others. Escitalopram (Lexapro) was a vast improvement for me over Citalopram. Then it plateaued and a year later, left me anhedonic. Tried an SNRI that would give me brain zaps every day a few hours before my next dose and it was horrendous to quit using. It also messed with my ability to meditate for a long while. Basically, I could put myself in a mental state that would trigger the same kind of painful brain zaps that withdrawal from the SNRI caused.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tests out there like https://www.chrismasterjohn-phd.com/mitome (No affiliation, just have been subscribed to the founder’s substack for a while)

Chris Masterjohn is a noted quack. He takes bits of actual science and research and weaves them together into narratives that make it sound like he has everything figured out with his unique protocols, but it doesn’t hold up to actual scrutiny. People spend years following his ever changing protocols without getting anywhere (beyond placebo effect and a large bill for supplements) I know I won’t convince the parent c…

Pure ad hominem FUD. “This guy sometimes disagrees with scientists employed by the government, don’t listen to him!”.

The technical details are beyond my understanding but I’ve heard from a PhD in the field that Masterjohn’s understanding of metabolism is second to none. Whether his protocols work or not is certainly a case by case matter (like any health protocol), but he always appears to substantiate it with well-cited lines of argument, and is willing to engage with interlocutors.

As for spending years with changing protocols without getting anywhere besides spending lots of money, well that can be said for people with complex issues who go the institutionally approved route as well. It isn’t discrediting in its own right that a protocol didn’t work for some.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#466

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

As someone that falls on the side of “depression is real and antidepressants can help” it is very clear that there are people in this thread that need to hold their tongues because they know not of what they speak. (Not you OP) There are some forms of depression that you cannot think or act your way out of. If you haven’t experienced that, I promise that you do not understand what it is like. You cannot really unders…

> The same is true for people that say that antidepressants are mostly placebo. They are not.

In fairness, anti-depressants are a lot of drugs. The article gives a list. 23 of them seemed to be better than placebo, 19 of them were much less clear.

> When people say that antidepressants saved their life, they aren’t joking or exaggerating in the least.

Placebos can also save people's lives.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#467
post #161

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

It's a symptom of the "health care" insurance industry. Many people end up paying a specialist doctor's co-pay when they see a psychiatrist. Some plans limit you to a maximum number of sessions you can have (6, in my case) per year. Talk therapy eats up sessions and co-pays like Pac-Man eats dots. One doctor expected me to come in twice a week. Americans don't get all the PTO and/or excused sick time they want to accommodate such a schedule.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#468

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

Same for me with Adderall.

I do wonder if being highly functional and feeling capable is normal though, like as a species it seems almost dysfunctional to happily plow through 8 hour workdays and bills and appointments and all the little bureaucracies we have to navigate. Sometimes a little voice screams "Run to the woods!" when I sit down and look at a long todo list for the day, but with Adderall I can generate some semblance of enjoyment from ticking off the boxes.

Granted our world is what it is, and we are mostly helpless to enact large changes. Finding some kind of peace with reality is probably better than bashing your head against why you don't fit into it well.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#469
I used to have very rough winters. Despite the fact that I ate well and was outside 2+ hours every day. I got my blood tested and I had very low vitamin D, two tiers below normal. This was the first winter being on Vitamin D, and my energy and hunger levels stayed normal. I never crashed or had extreme hunger or trouble sleeping.

Getting Vitamin D from food is a fools errand, and since sunscreen and protective clothing slow vitamin D from the sun drastically, it's in most people's best interest to get it tested.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#470

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

As someone that falls on the side of “depression is real and antidepressants can help” it is very clear that there are people in this thread that need to hold their tongues because they know not of what they speak. (Not you OP) There are some forms of depression that you cannot think or act your way out of. If you haven’t experienced that, I promise that you do not understand what it is like. You cannot really unders…

I was incapable of the compassion you're talking about until I had a bad shroom trip and felt some horrible, hard-to-describe anxiety the next morning. It was some of the worst hours of my life until my serotonin system rebalanced itself.

I'm not saying it's the same thing as depression or regular anxiety, but it gave me tremendous perspective on how bad these conditions can be and you just don't have the ability to "shake it off" when things are unbalanced.

Maybe that's how my wife feels when she's off the meds. Shit. Now imagine having a douchebag by your side second-guessing your pain. Never again.

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