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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#461

Post by mytailorisrich »

riffraff wrote: post #267
csomar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's 2025 numbers are out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_veh... They're up roughly 10% over last year and will likely hit 35% of global production. The big shift over the last decade (beyond their growing market share) is that their overall quality has caught up to (and in many cases surpassed) the traditional incumbents. Barring a global war, I think they're unstoppable at this point.

I remember when Japan was supposed to take over the world in the '80s, to the point that "back to the future 2" had Americans speaking Japanese to their managers. Toyota did become the dominant producer, but American and European car makers (and now Koreans and Chinese) are still around. I wouldn't bet on total domination from China anytime soon.

Yes I remember, too. The crucial difference is that Japan's population is one third of the US while China's is 4 times the US (and 3x the EU).

Basically Japan never had the numbers to "take over the world" while China has them even if natality is way down.

If China had the same clout relative to population as Japan, Germany, Korea, or the US it would dwarf everyone else, and that's why the US are in a panic about China.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#462

Post by cbeach »

bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power.

This is dangerous, geo-politically, should China ever go to war with the West in any capacity.

In WW2, America's car factories gave it a decisive advantage, as part of the war machine.

Ford’s Willow Run plant produced one B-24 bomber every ~63 minutes at peak output. General Motors built tanks, aircraft engines, trucks. Chrysler: tanks and artillery.

The West de-industrialised, as a result of our globalist policy (thanks to the WTO, WEF and other supranational organisations). We have decimated our own military industrial production capability.

Meanwhile China has taken exactly the opposite approach.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#463

Post by costcopizza »

melenaboija wrote: post #166
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I can 100% confidently say the average US buyer is not an auto enthusiast. Cars are appliances to the vast majority of people here.

There are multiple other factors for the relatively low adoption of EVs compared to China.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#464

Post by g947o »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #313
morshu9001 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that many Americans are car enthusiasts. The most popular cars have been basic commuters for decades.

It's hard to get basic commuter without overload of tech these days

What do you mean? If you look at a Toyota Camry/Corolla, there is barely anything that is "techy" in 2026. (not in a negative way)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#465

Post by gloxkiqcza »

sklargh wrote: post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

The new Cayenne seems to be a step in the right direction for VAG.

https://youtu.be/Yxc-U4_PwcU

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#466

Post by epolanski »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #271
melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

EU automaters fail at making modern cars. They just put a bunch of screens in there with awful software. If you go all screens, just commit like Tesla. If you can't beat Tesla, just stick with minimal screens and use buttons. Somewhere between 2010 and 2020, most automakers went crazy with their designs and it went all downhill from there.

Not sure why would you think EU automakers fail at making modern cars, also, you're generalizing 40+ car automakers in one basket.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#467

Post by epolanski »

chakintosh wrote: post #389
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It's done. They're already the premier automotive superpower now. It might not seem like it in Europe and USA, but anywhere else in the world they are dominating. I live in Morocco and I am not exaggerating when I say that every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road. Not just cars of the same brand, completely new brands. Dacia an…

In Europe there's plenty of Chinese cars to be honest.

And they often outsell European cars price-to-price, even through tariffs. It's crazy.

The whole topic of tariffs on their cars is also very complicated that European automakers aren't in favour of, because large parts of their sales come from outside Europe.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#468

Post by epolanski »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #392
chakintosh wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It's done. They're already the premier automotive superpower now. It might not seem like it in Europe and USA, but anywhere else in the world they are dominating. I live in Morocco and I am not exaggerating when I say that every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road. Not just cars of the same brand, completely new brands. Dacia an…

>every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road And I think the difference is going to be apparent 15-20 years from now when new parts are needed for these models. With the big boys like Ford, Toyota etc I can trust that they manufactured (and still manufacture) parts with warehouses full of them and I can always find the part I need to repair a vehicle. I very much doubt that we will see the same thing with Chines…

No EV is going to run 20 years from now unless replacing batteries will start costing significantly less.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#469

Post by epolanski »

IrishTechie wrote: post #255
msy wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parity? Their EVs are streets ahead, doubly so for the price.

Other than price, in what ways are they streets ahead? I’m a bit of an EV nerd and that would not be my assessment at all. Unfortunately for Western manufacturers price/volume is probably the most important thing right now, so they are still in serious trouble.

Interiors imho.

Their interiors on midrange+ vehicles seems leagues ahead of European automakers.

A 100k+ euros Mercedes Benz E class doesn't even get you real leather from a decade (by the way I prefer MB tex, but what are you paying for exactly?).

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#470

Post by epolanski »

psychoslave wrote: post #301
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

What's in the mind of European political oligarchy really?

What do you mean?
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