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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#461

Post by gamblor956 »

tensor wrote: post #369
crtasm wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not AI generated at all. Using acoustic models to stem out individual sections from a recording is not creating new material (and I wouldn't even describe that as "AI" despite what I'm sure a lot of the tools offering it want us to believe).

Sorry, that's AI. So is OCR, so is voice recognition, and many other things you probably use and take for granted. I'd suggest you focus on use cases not trying to redefine definitions for an entire area of science and technology based on your own preferences. Saying "I'm against fully AI generated music" is at least precise, and doesn't throw out detecting cancer along with the AI bandwagon term.

AI and voice recognition were using "machine learning" for several decades, which is basically just brute force statistics.

ML voice recognition is still far superior to AI-based voice recognition. At its best, Gemini is still less accurate at parsing speech than Dragon Naturally Speaking circa 2000.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#462

Post by bombdailer »

parpfish wrote: post #312
fzeroracer wrote: post #206

I feel like the thing like you can easily divide things along the lines of 'art' vs 'consumption'. A lot of people including myself enjoy music because it's so intimately human, the flaws and all. It's someone putting a bit of themselves into every piece they create, and people look for things that resonate with them. AI music however is purely about consumption. It's not something made to be remembered or cherished.…

I think we need to start distinguishing between art-music and utilitarian-music. Art-music is made by humans as a way of expressing yourself and making human connections. Utilitarian-music can be made by humans or machines and is there to serve a purpose. Background music for the elevator or while you’re on hold. An ambient soundscape that you play in an airport terminal. It’s not meant to move people, it’s just ther…

Artists of worth can do both, like Brian Eno with Music for Airports https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNwYtllyt3Q

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#463

Post by wincy »

fallinditch wrote: post #190

At first I was just curious, and unimpressed with the horridly bland shite coming out of these AI music generators. But then I made a prompt that sparked some kind of magic, so now I want to finish off that track just to see if I can end up with something that I consider good. I don't hold it much hope for this track because everything else I've heard on suno and udio are rubbish, but the 1 minute preview I have is e…

I’m not going to listen to people poo poohing what I’ve been doing with Suno, my seven year old and I rocked out to a song that took me less time to make than it took to listen to about my character’s D&D adventure last night. I’m just having fun.

The big secret right now is Suno will output good stuff but then it’s tortuous to get the lyrics to line up if you want to change anything, or add a word, it screws up the entire flow of the song all the way through. I spent 5 minutes making a 6 minute long power metal style song about a Druid fighting a dragon, then two hours unsuccessfully trying to get one with slightly more coherent lyrics and it output like 8 songs that sound terrible in a way I can’t quite put my finger on. The one song I tortured into existence took me 5 hours of work after getting a rough draft.

That said, being able to instantly make a song to tell my kids they need to clean the living room before we open presents and them singing the chorus happily for weeks after is just this great unique memory we have. Bespoke songs just for us is one of the coolest things ever and no amount of grumbling from anyone can dissuade me from it.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#465

Post by yellowapple »

codexon wrote: post #242
yellowapple wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a key factor there is that programmers (in the actual sense, rather than so-called “vibe coders”) are more likely on average than (current) artists and musicians to have intimate knowledge of how AI works and what AI can and can't do well — and consequently, the quality of their output is high enough that it's harder to notice the use of AI. Eventually that'll change, as artists and musicians continue to expe…

AI music from suno sounds indistinguishable to non-ai generated music to me. In terms of how well it works, the quality of AI music is far better than art or code. In art there are noticeble glitches like multiple fingers. For code, it can call non existent functions, not do what it is supposed to do, or have security issues or memory leaks. From what I can tell, there is no such deal breaker for AI music.

> For code, it can call non existent functions, not do what it is supposed to do, or have security issues or memory leaks.

I guess what I'm getting at is that, since programmers are typically more inclined than the average person to understand how AI works, programmers are therefore ahead of the curve when it comes to understanding those pitfalls and structuring their workflows to minimize them — to play to the strengths and weaknesses of LLMs. A “fancy” autocomplete v. a “fancy” linter v. something pretending to be a junior programmer are all going to have very different rates of success.

The issue hindering art and music is that most people using generative AI for art and music are doing so analogously to the “something pretending to be a junior programmer” role instead of the “fancy autocomplete” or “fancy linter” roles. That is: they're typically using AI to generate works end-to-end, whereas (non-vibe-coder) programmers are typically using AI in far narrower scopes, with more direct control over the final output. I think the quality of AI-based art and music will improve as more narrowly-scoped AI-driven workflows catch on among actually-skilled artists and musicians — and the result will be works that are very different from existing works, rather than works that only cheaply imitate some statistical average of existing works.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#466

Post by wincy »

frakt0x90 wrote: post #30
neom wrote: post #5

I've been having fun making stuff in Suno, I'm not a musician but I've always enjoyed "producing tracks" using Abelton and find the Suno + Abelton combo to be real magic on the weekends. I think some of the stuff I made isn't too bad and I'd love feedback on it. For a few weeks I went back and forth about uploading them to my soundcloud and resolve with this: I wouldn't have insisted we only allowed art made with MS…

Whenever I see defences of AI "art" people very often reduce the arguments to these analogies of using tools, but it's ineffective. Whether you use MS Paint, Photoshop, pencil, watercolor etc. That all requires skill, practice, and is this great intersection of intent and ability. It's authentic . Generating media with AI requires no skill, no intent, and very minimal labor. It is an approximation of the words you ty…

I used to sing dumb songs like when changing my kids diaper I’d sing “you got a STINKY DIAPER, you got a stinky diaper and it smelled like pee, oh don’t you knoooow what I mean” sung to Deo’s Holy Diver. Just dumb stuff like that.

I still sing songs like that, only now I’ve got almost an hour of dumb songs that Suno has made, like my kid asked “what if we just put in gibberish and the word poop a lot?” As kids do, and we got this absolutely bizarre Europop song where a dude sings his heart out about poopy poop, and my kids now sing this tune. It’s been nonstop laughs. My daughter is into Harry Potter and we made a song together just about her turning her hair green in potions class, with harpsichord and a theremin. We’re having a great time. I’m never going to be an artist and never going to try to make money off this stuff. I’m just making weird little bespoke memories with me and my kids.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#467

Post by SnowingXIV »

hexage1814 wrote: post #403
JohnFen wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I do. But what gives me joy with art is that it's a communication from one person to another. It's not about pretty sounds (or pictures, or whatever the medium is). If that communication isn't there, then the art has no real value to me regardless of how pretty it is. If I think I'm talking with a person and it turns out that I'm talking with a machine, I've been duped and will likely be angry about it. Ano…

>But what gives me joy with art is that it's a communication from one person to another Maybe if a person generated 50,000 songs, not even listening to them, you could have a point. Although, even in that case, regardless of the lack of an "artist's intention," there is the interpretation of what people will take from that thing. And that interpretation is often different from what the author originally had in mind.…

It needs to be more than that, I want to hear musicianship that has been honed and crafted. The struggle to find their sound. I'm fine with even an amateur musician learning their way around an instrument and being able to put something together that they tracked and mixed.

If a prompt returned the most perfect song, I would still not care to listen as that to me has completely divorced any human element that I would be interested in. Would not find it to be inspiring nor aspirational no matter how "good" it sounded so the models themselves could get exponentially better, but the manner in which it was created will prevent me from ever listening or caring about. It will always be hollow and lifeless.

Again, this is personal preference. If it makes others happy, that's great. In other many other mediums, I'm probably fine with that reduction in human-ness (where others may not be).

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#468

Post by rurp »

WD-42 wrote: post #82
olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

I’ve been doing the same over the last few months. The best part for me is going to record stores again. CDs are SO cheap now, especially used ones. I’ll usually pick a few out of the dollar bin just based on vibes and the cover and rip them when I get home. I’ve found some cool stuff. It’s like a treasure hunt. Don’t miss Spotify one bit.

Slightly off topic but this describes a lot of what I love about used book stores. I enjoy browsing around and often buy things that just seem interesting since the prices are low. I've found all kinds of great books that would never turn up in a regular curated store.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#469

Post by cdrnsf »

marknutter wrote: post #249
olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

If you came across a song and fell in love with it, only to find out later that it was generated by ai, would you stop loving the song?

Yes. It would reveal any emotional resonance, meaning or attachment to be fake and without value.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#470

Post by cdrnsf »

marknutter wrote: post #313
JohnFen wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I certainly would. I might even start hating the song, if that discovery left me feeling tricked.

That is such a bizarre opinion to have. Do you not enjoy art because it gives you joy?

Art is interesting because it’s fundamentally human and challenges you. Slop is incapable of doing that.
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