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BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

evclinic.eu

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Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch "The Car Care Nut" sometimes, as I've got a Toyota. Nothing I've ever seen there would lead me to put Toyota into the same maintenance cost/difficulty category as BMW or Mercedes. Consumer Reports puts them at almost opposite ends of the spectrum, as well. https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cos...

BMW uses bolts that require people to buy a special set of drivers to work on them, don’t they? Like giant inverted torx bolts.

External Torx. They're not so unusual. Even General Motors has used those in some places for eons -- I still have the set of them I bought at Autozone to replace the brakes on a Saturn a couple of decades ago.

The real fucker in automotive fasteners is XZN, aka Triple Square. These are all over VW products.

As fasteners go, they're fine. They work well.

The interface has 12 points, and it looks like something from the toolkit like an Allen key or a Torx bit might be the right choice, but it isn't that way at all: The angles are wrong (XZN angles are based on squares, not hexagons).

But that's OK: They make XZN socketry in factories every day that does have the correct angles. They're easy-enough to buy and to use.

The fuckery aspect is a human factor: Because it looks like it "should work" with a Torx driver or an Allen key, people dive in with the wrong tools and fuck it up for the next guy.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UN Regulation No. 155, and 156, and the Cyber Resilience Act (CRA) are requiring car manufacturers to implement cryptographic validation that allows only authorized software from the manufacturer to be run.

This is just signing, nothing cutting edge. Verification of signatures is a fairly old tech. What is the exact problem here? Is it that manufacturers do not publish the signed binaries or is it that you want to run something on your car compiled by you?

Authorized software means authorized for that car's VIN number. Basically it's the same issue with parts in Apple products that are serial number locked.

If for instance if you damaged a headlamp, and then went to an authorized BMW dealer, bought the correct brand new OEM BMW head lamp assembly from the parts department of an authorized BMW dealer, and followed the replacement procedure to the letter in the BMW service website... it won't work. The headlamp assembly is not authorized to talk to the rest of the car even though it's OEM, untampered, with stock firmware.

The headlamp has to be reprogrammed with the correct VIN number in order for the rest of the ECU's in that particular car to recognize it as authorized.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsche had a research program about a very reliable car in the 70s. It has some odd technical choices from today's perspective. https://www.hagerty.com/media/automotive-history/when-porsch... One would assume taxi companies etc would be willing to pay for cars that have high uptime and reliability. But I think they drive mostly the same stuff as regular people. At least one would assume they could get beefier suspen…

> while most cars nowadays have zinc coating and more plastic and are still mostly fine after 15 years. In your part of the world, maybe. I live in the middle of the salt belt in the US and we get about 10 years out of most cars. That's when you start seeing rust holes in the fenders around the wheels, when most of the frame has flaked away and the floor pans become involuntary structural elements. If you're a car nu…

I have a 2009 Civic that has no noticeable body rust, despite being in Michigan. Two times I've had to get minor body work done (not rust-related), the bodyshop owner commented that he never sees them this clean anymore. I chalk it up to being diligent with car washes, especially in the winter. Purists will cringe at this, but I'm fine with sacrificing some surface appearance (the paint doesn't look too bad, considering how many carwashes it's seen) in exchange for longevity.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#464
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like a weird rant that reduces EVs to only existing due to the environment. But they’re just better cars lol. And the poor reliability of european cars applies regardless of propulsion type

They aren’t better cars if they are disposal items like phones and most electronic devices.

They last longer than ICE cars.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-leads-vehicle-longevity-mile...

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also did a lot of pioneering work in DSG transmissions. I bought a Jetta when they finally moved it to VW from Audi. Great transmission and saved me a lot on brake jobs. Their DSG tune automatically engine brakes when you feather the brake pedal. > But have you ever tried to make something you built to easy to maintain? At work, all the time. The people who get it love working on or with my code. The ones who do…

I'm sure the money you saved on brake jobs was more than eaten up by the DSG service intervals. The interval on my Jetta Sportwagen Diesel with DSG was 40,000 miles. That required special hardware (tools and dongles, IIRC) and software if I wanted to do it myself.

My vehicle before that was the Accord that had the shit transmission that bailed out reliably at 110k miles, so I’m sure I barely noticed. My Accord shat itself at 100,300 miles, in the mountains. Luckily it was noon, a warm day, and I had cell service.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans are also famous for how hard they work, working a grueling 1350 hours per year, compared to freeloading lazy Greeks, who merely work 2000.

That's not even 26h /week. All this stat show is that there are probably more jobs in Germany. Need more data to draw any conclusions.

Not according to eurostat:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

The theory that Greeks work more hours because less of them work in total doesn't line up with the numbers.

But if we pick Poles instead of Greeks, they have a similar level of employment to Germany while working just as many hours as the Greeks

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#467
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d rather not die in a very survivable crash.

Pretty much every major safety feature is an order of magnitude less meaningful than the last. If you wear a seatbelt and eschew the most risky driving behaviors your chances of getting in a crash where the difference between 2005 and 2025 matters are very, very, very, small.

I wouldn't buy a car without ESC, that's just batshit crazy, esp. if you live where there's a chance of icy roads.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#468
I keep mulling over decisions like this, and I think the fundamental clash between the hacker ethos of repairability and the corporate ethos of products with well-defined failure modes comes down to a clash of innate human values with capitalism.

Capitalism fundamentally does not view human life as sacred. Or rather, it puts a finite value on human life. The bond between a mother and son is priceless, there is (in the case of a loving relationship) no price that either would put on the life of the other. That is to say, there is no amount of money that either would accept in exchange for the death of the other. As actuaries know, this is not true from a capitalist viewpoint. The value of a human life is frequently calculated by various means to be somewhere around 3.5 million dollars at birth. Which is to say, if a policy change costs an organization (private or public) over 3.5 million dollars to save one human life, it does not make financial sense. So when you look at a decision by an automaker to include a "safety" feature, you have to ask "did the amount of money that this costs the company work out in terms of human lives". In this case, BMW likely concluded that the financial damages of settling an insurance claim for a battery fire, and damage to their brand from the massive negative publicity of battery fires (see Tesla) would be more than the cost of implementing this "feature". This is also true from the legally mandated standpoint of crash safety features, which result in cars being much easier to total because of crumple zones. The cost of a $100k vehicle is much less than the cost of a $3.5 million human life. On the other hand, the carbon and pollution cost of replacing many $100k vehicles is borne by the public. An interesting view of this topic is summarized in the Wikipedia article "Value of Life" under the heading "Uses", which specifically covers the cost of implementing emissions regulation vs. the cost of the human lives that reduced emissions would save. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#Uses

As has been pointed out many times, vehicles these days are cost engineered to last as long as the average buyer of a new vehicle will hold onto the car. Since BMW targets a luxury market, that lifetime is likely on the order of 4-5 years. A Toyota is probably closer to 10 years. Automakers do not (as far as I know) make a meaningful amount of money on the maintenance of used cars; OEM parts do not necessarily come directly from the automaker, but rather a company that contracts with them or a subsidiary whose financials are not counted as part of the manufacturer's bottom line. Therefore, in our modern era of late-stage capitalism, companies have no incentive to make cars that last longer, and complaints from customers who wish that their end-of-life cars were easier to repair will fall on deaf ears. Those of us who wish our cars were less "safe" in order to contribute less to the criminal waste of disposal of otherwise sound vehicles and carbon cost of making a new vehicle would do well to consider the financial calculations that went into those decisions. Is making batteries that are easy to fix but kill someone when improperly repaired in 1/1000 crashes more ethical than installing systems to prevent batteries from ever being misconfigured? Are there more BMW crashes than other brands due to the target demographic? Is the number of batteries that will be repaired improperly significant enough to cause a large number of battery fires? I don't know.

This is by no means an excuse of these practices, but merely an attempt to understand them. I would love to hear where my reasoning is flawed so I can better understand this. It certainly seems to me that the risk of a shade tree mechanic soldering a piece of wire into a BMW battery computer is astronomically low, but I have seen repairpeople of all shades do really stupid things to save money so probably not zero.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that $10k the list price, or have you actually seen a recent invoice from a mechanic for a Model 3 battery swap?

I have no info on Tesla batteries. But, just as a point of reference, you can now buy knock-down 48V battery "kits" from China for under $90/kWh. They include everything you need: case, cells, BMS, circuit breaker/isolator, and fire suppression. Assembly takes about an hour. (The raw prismatic cells without the rest go for ~$50/kWh). Shipping from China to the west coast runs an additional $30/kWh due to the weight o…

Automotive grade cells are a bit more expensive (generally higher C rates, dunno if they have other specs)

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as long as you don’t compare them to any car. teslas in 2025 belong in a museum lol I own tesla s 2014, my neighbour has 2025, same car. tesla x was cool… in 2017. tesla 3 is like a worse looking kia and model y is like if you took tesla 3 and pumped some air in it.

2025 S is the same as your 2014 S? That’s some hilarious cope. Stop lying. You know it’s completely different. Yes, a model S is still a model S. And the F150 is still a pickup truck. Surprise!

When I bought my S in 2014 people were breaking their necks checking it out, it was the shit - now this car is soooo dated there is no reason to buy 2026 vs. my 2014 (I got new DU, new battery…)

Tesla entire lineup is old outdated cars. Ford has F-150 and then another 50 models to choose from…

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