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Valve is about to win the console generation

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Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#461

Post by estimator7292 »

TheRoque wrote: post #51

I hardly understand the headline. Steam machine is just a computer, and since it can be used for other stuff than playing games, then it can't have the cheap pricing of a console. Most consoles are sold at a loss, and the benefits are made when selling console-exclusive games. If you sell something at a loss, but users aren't forced to buy your games, then you're not gonna make any money. Hence, the Steam Machine (AK…

Are you assuming that nobody who buys a GabeCube is going to buy a game on Steam ever again?

Is it perhaps more likely that users with a convenient box attached to their TV might want to buy more games from Steam?

Now this might be difficult to track, but stay with me. Valve makes the GabeCube. Valve owns Steam. Sales from Steam go to Valve. Users with Steam hardware play a disproportionate amount of games bought from Steam. See where this is going?

There's absolutely no difference. You can run games from other stores on a GabeCube, but most people will play Steam games. People who play more games buy more games. Just like people who mainly play Xbox buy more Xbox games.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#462

Post by culi »

intexpress wrote: post #94

To win this console generation and outsell the PS5, Valve would have to sell 85 million Steam Machines (as of today, and likely need to sell 120 million by the end of the generation). About a 0% chance of that happening. Looks cool, though

Valve has the advantage of practically infinite backwards compatibility.

Console generations change every decade or so and the previous console gets abandoned. Anyone who buys a Steam Machine will continue to have access to the largest collection of video games in human history. Not to mention there are emulators for every classic console already and even the Nintendo Switch has at least two great emulators for it.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#463

Post by johnnyanmac »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #455
johnnyanmac wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. That doesn't conflict with their point. "No one had to sell at a loss... Except every non-market leader" only proves their point. >, but their redesigns made them profitable No one says consoles always sell at a loss. They are sold over 6-8 years and price drops are pretty conservative (until last gen where they ceased to be). Every conse eventually becomes profitable, but not in the years where they sell the m…

> but not in the years where they sell the most. Nope. Take 1 example, the PS3. It lost money in 2007 & 2008, but became profitable in 2009. They sold 16 million PS3's in 2007 and 2008 out of a total 87 million. So approximately 20% of PS3's were sold at a loss. And the PS3 is perhaps the console that was sold at the biggest loss at the beginning due to the horrendously expensive Cell chip. It's kind of moot, anyways…

The ps3 was certainly a unique case, because despite selling at a loss it still wasn't a competitive price. The infamous "599 USD" now translates to 950 dollars today, so that really shows you how utterly expensive it was (when the PS5 pro just needed to price hike to $800).so it coming down in price for consumers and manufacturers helped it immensely.

But I do believe that was a unique case. Consoles don't typically "come back" later in life. The vita later on didn't. The Wii U and Xbox one didn't. The dreamcast sure didn't. Sony's big turnaround should be praised, but not accepted as a norm of business.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#465

Post by culi »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #22

As the article says, "The only way that they could mess this up is with the pricing. ... I'd expect the pricing to be super aggressive." The price to beat is the $400-$500 price point of PS5 and XBox. I'm guessing Valve is going to have a very hard time matching that. We'll know soon enough.

Hard disagree with that claim. The truth is anyone with a PC and a steam machine basically already has a Steam Machine. Steam doesn't need to sell at a loss like most consoles. Their only real goal is to prove that there's nothing a console can do that a PC can't do.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#466

Post by wiredpancake »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #125
jsheard wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter Strike came out in '99 and it's more relevant than ever. Some games just keep going and going.

I hate to break it to you, but CS is not relevant. How much money do you think it makes, compared to recent top sellers or live service/mobile games?

[dead]

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#467

Post by culi »

cirelli94 wrote: post #186
tapoxi wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This system won't run FIFA, GTA Online, Battlefield, Valorant or CoD, it's a nonstarter for many. Sure you don't need to subscribe to PS+, but that's somewhat easier to swallow since PS+ gives you games with the subscription. I'm still interested in this for playing older games but I have a Steam Deck and it still isn't remotely as seamless as my Switch or PS5.

> This system won't run FIFA, GTA Online, Battlefield, Valorant or CoD, it's a nonstarter for many. That's largely known now but still a bummer. I wonder if anything will ever change in this area and if Valve will be able to pressure game editors or create an anti-cheat so good and for any platform to be able to change something.

Steam Machine is just a PC. You can dual boot or use a VM or use Wine/Proton .

It can be involved but it's certainly possible

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#468

Post by culi »

pezezin wrote: post #299
Aeolun wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus a game catalog that stretches back some 30 years?

More like 50 years if you consider emulators (RetroArch is available on Steam).

It doesn't even need to be available on Steam to be fair. You can run whatever games you want. You could even run a Nintendo Switch emulator if you want

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#469

Post by johnnyanmac »

hamdingers wrote: post #456
johnnyanmac wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Id be shocked if Valve is so out of touch they would kill this thing with an unwarranted price tag" It happened a decade ago. Wouldn't surprise me. My bet is it will be similar to steam deck. The starting specs will be somewhat comoetitve to a PS5 Pro but with huge compromises (in Steam Deck'Deck's case, flash storage). A model that competently competes with a proper gaming oc will probably be 1000 or so. Valve got…

> It happened a decade ago. The Steam Deck shows they learned every available lesson from that endeavor. Why would they retread mistakes they've already proven they know not to make? > The starting specs will be somewhat comoetitve to a PS5 Pro but with huge compromises (in Steam Deck'Deck's case, flash storage). A model that competently competes with a proper gaming oc will probably be 1000 or so. The specs are alre…

>RTFA

Okay

>TL;DR: The Steam Machine's specs are on par or better with the PS5.

So, a ps5 pro with huge compromises? What did i miss here? Comparing a console to a PC isn't apples to apples so just looking at raw specs won't give us the full picture.

>Why would they retread mistakes they've already proven they know not to make?

Because they think the road is different today, with more people willing to follow them this time.

You can take the wrong lessons from success and catastrophically fail next time. Gaming is rife with that trend because of failed experiments, being too early to market, or completely misunderstanding what consumers resonated with.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#470

Post by _carbyau_ »

okayjustonemore wrote: post #418
hananova wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything more to this? I’ve returned dozens of games that I didn’t end up liking and the only consequence I’ve faced is that games with trading cards don’t start dropping them until 2 hours of play time, which I think is completely fair.

There most certainly is. This is not Steam’s default refund procedure in the slightest. I’d be willing to bet they were abusing the system somehow and support caught them red handed.

I'm not sure how to abuse the return system. It's not like I pirate anything from Steam. And I used the return process through Steam - exactly once, as mentioned above. If I wasn't meant to do a thing, then I would think the process should not let me do it. But I returned it in good faith, for a game that managed to make me rage quit in less than an hour - I like to think at least that I am usually patient but I wasn't putting up with that shit.

If a Valve employee with rights to look into it is reading this - I'd love to know what I did so wrong. But given that human explanations from modern software based corporations are non-existent, I will assume I was treated as per their returns policy.

And the outcome has worked in Steams favour. I buy for (account) life now, for better or for worse. As previously mentioned, I don't care about the money so much as the social.

But my decision making process to drop the significant money required for Steam hardware will assume the return/warranty is worth precisely zero.

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