Live data from Hacker News

.NET 10

devblogs.microsoft.com

461–470 of 605 posts

Re: .NET 10

#461
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing that any startup is more likely than not to fail, why would I work for a company that is using a niche technology that isn’t going to be in demand when I look for my n+1 job?

How important is being a language expert in x vs all your other skills as a Software Engineer? My opinion is that "higher level" skills (like system design/architecture, product thinking/planning etc.) are so much more important than language minutia (outside of specialized fields). If a business is turning away candidates because they "don't have n years of experience in x" that doesn't sound like a very dynamic/int…

Before you can demonstrate your skills on the job - you have to get the job.

Most of the 2.6 million+ developers in the US don’t have “interesting jobs” nor do they care if their jobs are “interesting”. They work to exchange labor for money to support their addiction to food and shelter.

https://www.hanselman.com/blog/dark-matter-developers-the-un...

If you look at the requirements for most jobs they want you to have $x number of years of technology $y. When every job application gets 100s of resumes, employees can be picky.

Besides, every technology has its foot guns, ecosystems, way of doing things and people who think they can just pattern match based on what they know are often the most dangerous.

One example is that I’ve seen people who know relational databases, optimization techniques and normalization try to pattern match their understanding of OLTP databases when using OLAP databases like Redshift and Snowflake and it being a complete disaster.

See also people who don’t understand how to do a single table design with DynamoDB.

In my particular niche (cloud + app dev + customer facing consulting) , I knows AWS inside and out and have used more AWS services than you can imagine in the past 7 years in a production capacity [1] and I’m currently a staff level developer at a consulting company (full time), the only company that would (has) looked seriously at me to do consulting outside of working with AWS is ironically enough - Google.

But they have the bandwidth to let me ramp up. When I have one open req, why would I hire someone who needs to ramp up on AWS when I have a dozen applicants with experience? Why would I put myself at a disadvantage?

A company would be absolutely insane to choose me over someone with experience with Azure, or GCP as a staff consultant over the probably dozens of applicants they have with that particular skill if they were an Azure or GCP shop.

When my current company hired me, they were short staffed and gave me a week to onboard and flew me out to a customer site to do support a large sales contract. They hired me because I could hit the ground running both technically and without “consulting training” like AWS had.

[1] seven years of experience between 2 working at a startup, 3 working directly at AWS (Professional Services) and two working as staff consultant at a third party company.

Re: .NET 10

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silly question. If you want the C# experience but more community/OSS driven… why not Java?

I haven't kept aware of changes to Java in the last decade, but the things I didn't like about it then were: 1. The overall architecture (with the JVM) made it slower than the equivalent C# code. 2. C# really started embracing modern language features at a time when Java was kind of languishing (lambda functions, async patterns). Java seems like it's been in perpetual catch-up since then. (Not OP, disclaimer, I work…

Ah, got you.

> I haven't kept aware of changes to Java in the last decade, but the things I didn't like about it then were:

It's almost a shame. I am genuinely impressed with the gains the team has made in both, language aspects as well as JVM technology. They have some brilliant people working on it and I love to hear their talks (Brian Goetz and Mark Reinhold, mostly).

But I suppose I would say the same about .Net, it's just that you guys have much less public exposure of your internal reasoning.

Re: .NET 10

#463
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silly question. If you want the C# experience but more community/OSS driven… why not Java?

I wouldn't call this a silly question at all. But having recently converted my intro data structures course from Java to C#, I can talk about why C# might be better. I have programmed regularly in both languages for the last 15 or so years (in addition to regularly programming in TypeScript, Scala, and F#). Java is fast and reasonably safe. It has a lot of software (especially OSS) software. Its package system (Maven…

I'm not new to C# myself and I have been writing a hobby game project in it for the better part of 2 years. I know the C# features pretty in-depth by now, and while you can definitely make an argument that C# has more and better features, I found that Java has greater synergies in its features.

Don't get me wrong, there are some features like "abstract static" in interfaces which give C# superpowers... until you realize that this only works one layer deep. Or the non-break switch expressions, which require a return type. Lack of an equivalent to Java's "Sealed Classes" (that you can switch over). Or that you can't validate primary constructors up until recently.

Lack of value objects are definitely hurting, but JEP401 addresses this and is available as preview as of now. I am absolutely blown away by the depth of their value-narrative and I think they uncovered something much deeper than "value or not" with gradual performance gains based on gradual constraints.

But I absolutely see the value of C# in teaching. Java works more via libraries and convention, whereas C# has ingrained many concepts directly into the syntax level.

But maybe I am a Java fanboy, haha. I even prefer the Erasure of Generics, the times it has complicated my code in C# is much higher by now than I ever thought it would be.

Re: .NET 10

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silly question. If you want the C# experience but more community/OSS driven… why not Java?

C# and Java might be similar technologies at some level but they not similar developer experiences at all .

How so? It striked me that the .Net library and Java frameworks like Spring or Quarkus are virtually identical.

Re: .NET 10

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silly question. If you want the C# experience but more community/OSS driven… why not Java?

C# 1.0 was pretty much Microsoft Java, but since then, C# has evolved into its own, more powerful thing, while Java has stayed much more conservative over the years.

I think this was a fair statement up until a couple years ago, but right now I am lamenting the actual progress in C# and CLR technology.

I think the progress on Java and the JVM has been nothing but impressive. Not only compared to the baseline to where things were 10/15 years ago, but simply how much stuff comes out each year and how well-thought it all is.

Frankly, it's an inspiration for my private and professional projects.

Re: .NET 10

#466

Does this version improve or streamline the numerous options for web dev like Razor, Blazor etc? Anyone can comment on which is actually being popular

Same number of options. Razor is still the "default" and "Razor Pages" has a different brand name, but just means "Razor with more things in the main .razor file and fewer code-behind .razor.cs files and less of an MVC approach". Blazor mostly only matters if you want your frontend to also be Razor. At that point you've got the fork between Blazor using SignalR for HTML pipes from Razor files to the client versus Bla…

Thanks! Its clear..

Re: .NET 10

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was somewhat recently attempting to help my manager get a C# dev environment set up. He was used to doing everything the C/Java/JavaScript/Python/almost-every-language-under-the-sun way, and avoiding the "Microsoft way" of doing things created so many roadblocks. I had no idea that over the previous ~20 years I had been practicing a C# compiler summoning ritual and had become incredibly good at it. From the start I…

>He was used to doing everything the C/Java/JavaScript/Python/almost-every-language-under-the-sun way, and avoiding the "Microsoft way" of doing things created so many roadblocks. What exactly does this mean? I haven't touched .NET in earnest in over 10 years. I know the ecosystem has evolved a lot since then, but I don't know how or in what ways

As far as I remember, cloning the project, sprinkling in some printfs and running it. He didn't want to use an interactive debugger. He was used to using the likes of nvm, uv, rustup, etc.

Re: .NET 10

#468
post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

Had the privilege to be consistent on C# development against the tide. NuGet was pretty generous during the years and VS26 is catching up with the small VS code frontend page cousin.

Re: .NET 10

#469
post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

I think the key problem is that a large number of startups are shipping software in containers, and dotnet requiring a CLR is not particularly well-suited for containerization. It's like the old school Java JVM model. You have to ship a copy of the runtime with every container, and if you're doing proper microservices it's an awful lot of overhead. Yes I'm aware MS makes it easy to build containers and even single ex…

> ...languages that compile down to an ELF are pretty much a requirement once your deployments are over the 10k containers mark.

Why?

Re: .NET 10

#470

.NET has to win the title for worst naming. If you didn't know what it was, this announcement makes no sense whatsoever. All you would guess is there are probably 9 others that were just like it.

> All you would guess is there are probably 9 others that were just like it. Lol, even this is not true. For the current runtime/stdlib package known as ".NET", they started numbering at 5. The actual sequence (only counting major version numbers) is: .net framework 1, 2, 3, 4, .net core 1, 2, 3, .net 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Easily the worst naming/version history for any product (worse than Windows).

I'm still reminding other devs that it's not ".NET Core" anymore (and hasn't been for years), it's just .NET.
Post reply on HN