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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

seattletimes.com

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Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#461

Post by boston_clone »

tomhow wrote: post #453
boston_clone wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not acceptable to post in this inflammatory style on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're here for curious conversation, not battle. It's also not acceptable on HN to scour through someone's past activity (whether on HN or elsewhere) in order to attack them, and that kind of belittling language is never OK here. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future. https://n…

It's strange to me that you chose to not cite the guidelines to elsewhere such as:

> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle.

Are anti-immigrant sentiments acceptable if they are simply well-articulated?

And if not, then why do you feel it necessary to be more critical of the language I or lalaithion use for explicit dismissals of racists and xenophobes than the actual racism or xenophobia itself?

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#462

Post by Ancapistani »

tsbischof wrote: post #426
Ancapistani wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to be going up rapidly at the moment. I live in a county where the county seat is I went to add them to Deflock, but their process requires an OSM account. I wasn’t able to do that on the side of the road, and haven’t gotten back to it yet.

About 40k new cameras each year from what I have seen. If you find yourself with some time, there is now a DeFlock app that helps with mapping. It also includes locations where people suspect there might be a camera, though that is limited to about a third of the states so far.

I just downloaded it, and set up an OSM account. I’ve got a good mind to go drive all the major roads in my county tomorrow and mark every one I see.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#463

Post by tomhow »

theultdev wrote: post #456
tomhow wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please avoid flamebait and ideological battle on HN. We're here for curious conversation. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I don't see in any way how my comment was flamebait. It's a political discussion, either allow it fully or don't. Leaving one sided statements up like the GP is not a discussion. My response was a real retort to that belief that America wouldn't function without below minimal-wage exploitation of illegal aliens. Referencing the morals of the same justification for slavery is a valid point.

Your comment was flagged by several members of the community who all have a solid track record for flagging things due to being in breach of the guidelines (rather than due to disagreement, spite etc). So I'm not out of step with community standards here.

> Leaving one sided statements up like the GP is not a discussion.

Other comments in the subthread have also been flagged and killed, and I may reply to them also. I replied to yours because I saw it before the others and because its's clearly a party-political, inflammatory comment, and you are a repeat offender when it comes to guidelines breaches. In just the past 18 months, dang or I have asked you five times now to improve your conduct on HN.

> It's a political discussion, either allow it fully or don't.

> Referencing the morals of the same justification for slavery is a valid point.

The validity of an argument is a separate matter to whether it is expressed in an inflammatory way. We want to be able to discuss difficult topics on HN, and that can only happen if people are going to respect the guidelines and make the effort to discuss things with sensitivity and curiosity, rather than combativeness.

If you are only able to discuss difficult political topics in a combative style, HN is not the right place for you to participate.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#464

Post by tomhow »

boston_clone wrote: post #461
tomhow wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not acceptable to post in this inflammatory style on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're here for curious conversation, not battle. It's also not acceptable on HN to scour through someone's past activity (whether on HN or elsewhere) in order to attack them, and that kind of belittling language is never OK here. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future. https://n…

It's strange to me that you chose to not cite the guidelines to elsewhere such as: > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. Are anti-immigrant sentiments acceptable if they are simply well-articulated? And if not, then why do you feel it necessary to be more critical of the language I or lalaithion use for explicit dismissals of racists and xenophobes than the actual racism or xenophobia it…

People continually try on this “gotcha” that we moderate more for tone than substance and that HN freely allows hateful rhetoric as long as it is smuggled in a Trojan Horse of “civility”.

This is of course a non-starter and nothing in the guidelines allows it. The first words in the “In Comments“ section of the guidelines are Be kind, and there is nothing “kind” about xenophobia or other hateful ideas, by definition.

But as longtime forum moderators we can't be so naïve as to succumb to an attempt to characterize any discussion about immigration laws and their enforcement as “anti-immigration” and ”hateful”. From what I can see this is discussion is not one of “pro” or “anti” immigration but about how laws should be interpreted and enforced, which is always something that should be able to be discussed in a spirit of curiosity. The guidelines cover this too:

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Nailer is a user who has crossed the line before and we've appealed to him multiple times to observe the guidelines, and will certainly do so again if and when it is warranted. In this case I don't see how he is the one who has crossed the line, but even if he was, that doesn't excuse you from doing so.

If you see guidelines-breaking comments on HN, just flag them or if they're especially egregious, email us (hn@ycombinator.com). If you escalate, then you become the one in the wrong, by making a bad situation even worse.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#465

Post by theultdev »

tomhow wrote: post #463
theultdev wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see in any way how my comment was flamebait. It's a political discussion, either allow it fully or don't. Leaving one sided statements up like the GP is not a discussion. My response was a real retort to that belief that America wouldn't function without below minimal-wage exploitation of illegal aliens. Referencing the morals of the same justification for slavery is a valid point.

Your comment was flagged by several members of the community who all have a solid track record for flagging things due to being in breach of the guidelines (rather than due to disagreement, spite etc). So I'm not out of step with community standards here. > Leaving one sided statements up like the GP is not a discussion. Other comments in the subthread have also been flagged and killed, and I may reply to them also.…

I really don't see how pointing out history or highlighting political positions of a party is combative, but okay.

I'm aware of my run ins with you and dang and regret hitting that threshold, but it's never intentional.

I never attack a person directly, even though I have witnessed it being done and others have done it to me.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#466

Post by tomhow »

theultdev wrote: post #465
tomhow wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment was flagged by several members of the community who all have a solid track record for flagging things due to being in breach of the guidelines (rather than due to disagreement, spite etc). So I'm not out of step with community standards here. > Leaving one sided statements up like the GP is not a discussion. Other comments in the subthread have also been flagged and killed, and I may reply to them also.…

I really don't see how pointing out history or highlighting political positions of a party is combative, but okay. I'm aware of my run ins with you and dang and regret hitting that threshold, but it's never intentional. I never attack a person directly, even though I have witnessed it being done and others have done it to me.

OK, I can accept that you didn't know, and that you don't intend to cross the line, but that just indicates you're not aware of what's expected here and you need to learn, and to make an ongoing effort to stay well inside the bounds.

A line like “Whether it's slaves or illegals, it's still wrong” will always be classed as an inflammatory statement on HN.

> I never attack a person directly

That style of rhetoric in the reply is hostile to the parent; we often don't know how hostile our words can seem to the person on the receiving end of them; they don't seem so bad when they're just thoughts in our own mind.

> even though I have witnessed it being done and others have done it to me.

You should flag things or report them to us at hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate and act where needed.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#467

Post by array_key_first »

lacker wrote: post #441
array_key_first wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this counts as property damage or vandalism because nothing is damaged or vandalized. Part of putting shit in public is that it now has to interact with the public. If you want your stuff pristine, I would think you should not put it in public. Maybe the law disagrees with me here, and it probably does because this country bends over backwards for companies, but that's how I see it.

Obviously it's property damage. How would you like it if someone covered the windshield of your car with glue?

I wouldn't like it but that definitely doesn't make it property damage. Because my property isn't damaged.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#468

Post by array_key_first »

dpoloncsak wrote: post #428
array_key_first wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this counts as property damage or vandalism because nothing is damaged or vandalized. Part of putting shit in public is that it now has to interact with the public. If you want your stuff pristine, I would think you should not put it in public. Maybe the law disagrees with me here, and it probably does because this country bends over backwards for companies, but that's how I see it.

>I don't think this counts as property damage or vandalism because nothing is damaged or vandalized. Isn't this a form of graffiti?

I don't know, maybe? What's the cut off point for how long it takes to remove something?

Removing paint takes a long time. Removing glue doesn't take a long time. Removing a sticky note takes almost no time.

If I leave a sticky note on your car, is that graffiti? Is glue graffiti?

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#469

Post by [deleted] »

Ancapistani wrote: post #462
tsbischof wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 40k new cameras each year from what I have seen. If you find yourself with some time, there is now a DeFlock app that helps with mapping. It also includes locations where people suspect there might be a camera, though that is limited to about a third of the states so far.

I just downloaded it, and set up an OSM account. I’ve got a good mind to go drive all the major roads in my county tomorrow and mark every one I see.

[deleted]

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#470

Post by jjgreen »

tiahura wrote: post #391
asveikau wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are probably unaware of the telemetry on their vehicle. But this is a good point, people get upset when government is perceived to screw them over and not upset enough when the private sector does it. In practice, the private sector screws over the public quite a bit.

If millions of people are being tracked by GM and haven’t noticed, how is it a problem?

If I wank in your soup and you don't notice, how is that a problem?
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