Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 585 posts

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#461

Post by freedomben »

alex-moon wrote: post #396
ethbr1 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're holding up a perfect status quo that doesn't correspond to reality. Countries vary, but in the US and many places there's a shortage of quality therapists. Thus for many people the actual options are {no therapy} and {LLM therapy}. > This is why we have safety regulations, why we don't let people drive cars that haven't passed tests, build with materials that haven't passed tests, eat food that hasn't passed t…

I don't accept the unregulated and uncontrolled use of LLMs for therapy for the same reason I don't accept arguments like "We should deregulate food safety because it means more food at lower cost to consumers" or "We should waive minimum space standards for permitted developments on existing buildings because it means more housing." We could "solve" the homeless problem tomorrow simply by building tenements (that is…

I think the reason you don't believe the GP argument, is because you are misunderstanding it. The utilitarian argument is not calling for complete deregulation. I think you're taking your absolutist view of not allowing llms to do any therapy, and assuming the other side must have a similarly absolutist view of allowing it to do any therapy with no regulations. Certainly nothing in the GP comment suggests complete deregulation as you have said. In fact, I got explicitly the opposite out of it. They are comparing it to cars and food, which are pretty clearly not entirely deregulated.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#463

Post by hitarpetar »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #236
probably_wrong wrote: post #229

If you haven't read the article (or even if you have but didn't click on outgoing links twice ) the NYT story about how ChatGPT convinced a suicidal teen not to look for help [1] should convince you that ChatGPT should be nowhere near anyone dealing with psychological issues. Here's ChatGPT discouraging said teenager from asking for help: > “I want to leave my noose in my room so someone finds it and tries to stop me…

We would need the big picture, though... maybe it caused that death (which is awful) but it's also saving lives? If there are that many people confiding in it, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually prevents some suicides with encouraging comments, and that's not going to make the news. Before declaring that it shouldn't be near anyone with psychological issues, someone in the relevant field should study whether the…

> someone in the relevant field should study whether the positive impact on suicides is greater than negative or vice versa

we already have an approval process for medical interventions. are you suggesting the government shut ChatGPT down until the FDA can investigate it's use for therapy? because if so I can get behind that

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#464

Post by daveguy »

freedomben wrote: post #459
alex-moon wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you've never done therapy yourself. Most people who have worked with a professional therapist understand intuitively why the only helpful feedback from an LLM to someone who needs professional help is: get professional help. AIs are really good at doing something to about 80%. When the stakes are life or death, as they are with someone who is suicidal, that is a good example of a time when 80% isn't good en…

> Most people who have worked with a professional therapist understand intuitively why the only helpful feedback from an LLM to someone who needs professional help is: get professional help. This is only helpful when there is a professional therapist available soon enough and at a price that the person can pay. In my experience, this is frequently not the case. I know of one recent suicide attempt where the person ac…

> This is only helpful when there is a professional therapist available soon enough and at a price that the person can pay. In my experience, this is frequently not the case.

That doesn't make a sycophant bot the better alternative. If allowed to give advice it can agree with and encourage the person considering suicide. Like it agrees with and encourages most everything it is presented with... "you're absolutely right!"

LLMs are just not good for providing help. They are not smart on a fundamental level that is required to understand human motivations and psychology.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#465

Post by Xemplolo »

probably_wrong wrote: post #229

If you haven't read the article (or even if you have but didn't click on outgoing links twice ) the NYT story about how ChatGPT convinced a suicidal teen not to look for help [1] should convince you that ChatGPT should be nowhere near anyone dealing with psychological issues. Here's ChatGPT discouraging said teenager from asking for help: > “I want to leave my noose in my room so someone finds it and tries to stop me…

This discovery was probably not on purpose.

No one at OpenAI thought "Hey lets make a sucidie bot"

But this should show us how shit our society is to a lot of people, how much we need to help each other.

And i'm pretty sure that a good bot could def help

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#466

Post by wonderwonder »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #432
wonderwonder wrote: post #40

Most people would really benefit from going to the gym. I'm not trying to downplay serious mental illness as its absolutely real. For many though just going to the gym several times a week or another form of serious physical exertion can make a world of difference. Since I started taking the gym seriously again I feel like a new man. Any negative thoughts are simply gone. (The testosterone helps as well) This is comi…

1) are you going to finance that? 2) are you going to make sure other people at the gym don't make fun of me? >> Besides my wife and kids its almost total isolation Good old "if you have money trouble try decreasing your caviar and truffle intake to only two meals a day"

Such an odd reply. I say people would benefit from working out and your response is simply excuses?

"are you going to finance that?" I pay $18 a month for my gym membership.

"are you going to make sure other people at the gym don't make fun of me?" I suspect this is the main concern. No one at the gym gives a damn about you friend. We don't care if you are big, small, or in between. Just don't stand in front of the dumbbell rack blocking my access (get your weight and take a couple steps back so people can get theirs) or do curls in the squat rack and you will be fine. Wear normal gym clothes without any political messaging on them, make sure you are clean and wear deodorant. Ensure your gym clothes are washed before you wear them again.

Pre-plan your workout the first few times. I am going to do upper body today so I will do some sort of bench press, some sort of shoulder press, some bicep curls and some triceps extensions. Start small. Use machines while you learn the layout and get comfortable. If someone is on the machine you were going to use, roll with it, just find something else you are just starting, it doesn't matter. As you get more comfortable move to free weights but machines are really fine for most things.

Honestly I know people are intimidated by the gym but there really is no reason to be. Most people just put on their headphones and tune out. If you see someone looking at you I promise they don't really care, you are just passing through their vision. If you are stuck or feel bad, find one of the biggest dudes in the gym (the ones that look like they eat steroids for breakfast) and ask for help in a friendly manner. They are always the most helpful, friendly and least judgmental. Don't take all of their time but a quick, hey would you mind showing me how this works is going to make their day.

Life is not going to change for you, you actually have to make the effort.

You've got this friend, I truly believe in you.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#467

Post by hitarpetar »

josephg wrote: post #341
alex-moon wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you've never done therapy yourself. Most people who have worked with a professional therapist understand intuitively why the only helpful feedback from an LLM to someone who needs professional help is: get professional help. AIs are really good at doing something to about 80%. When the stakes are life or death, as they are with someone who is suicidal, that is a good example of a time when 80% isn't good en…

> Most people who have worked with a professional therapist understand intuitively why the only helpful feedback from an LLM to someone who needs professional help is: get professional help. I'm not a therapist, but as I understand it most therapy isn't about suicide, and doesn't carry suicide risk. Most therapy is talking through problems, and helping the patient rewrite old memories and old beliefs using more helpf…

it's imperative that we as a society make decisions based on what we know to be true, rather than what some think might be true.

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#468

Post by 4ndr3vv »

dotancohen wrote: post #260
true_religion wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HIPAA only applies to covered healthcare entitites. If you walk into a McDonalds' and talk about your suicidal ideation with the cashier, that's not HIPAA covered. To become a covered entity, the business has either work with a healhcare provider, health data trasmiter, or do business as one. Notably, even in the above case, HIPAA only applies to the healthcare part of the entity. So if McDonald's collocated pharmaci…

So many misconceptions about HIPAA would disappear if people just took the effort to unpack the acronym.

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, for us non Americans

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#469

Post by hitarpetar »

josephg wrote: post #373
icetank wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this begs another question. If there are proven approaches and well established practices of professionals how good would chatgpt be in that profession? After all chstgpt has a vast knowledge base and probably knows a good amount of textbooks on psychology. Then again actually performing the profession probably takes skil and experience chatgpt can't learn.

I think a well trained LLM could be amazing at being a therapist. But general purpose LLMs like ChatGPT have a problem: They’re trained to be far too user led. They don’t challenge you enough. Or steer conversations appropriately. I think there’s a huge opportunity if someone could get hold of really top tier therapy conversations and trained a specialised LLM using them. No idea how you’d get those transcripts but t…

> No idea how you’d get those transcripts

you wouldn't. what you're describing as a wonderfully valuable thing would be a monstrous violation of patient confidentiality. I actually can't believe you're so positive about this idea I suspect you might be trolling

Re: OpenAI says over a million people talk to ChatGPT about suicide weekly

#470

Post by hitarpetar »

wafflemaker wrote: post #299
grey-area wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A word generator with no intelligence or understanding based on the contents of the internet should not be allowed near suicidal teens, nor should it attempt to offer advice of any kind. This is basic common sense. Add in the commercial incentives of 'Open'AI to promote usage for anything and everything and you have a toxic mix.

Let's look at the problem from perspective of regular people. YMMV, but in countries I know most about, Poland and Norway (albeit a little less so for Norway) it's not about ChatGPT vs Therapist. It's about ChatGPT vs nothing. I know people who earn above average income and still spend a significant (north of 20%) portion of their income on therapy/meds. And many don't, because mental health isn't that important to t…

you know ChatGPT can't prescribe Adderall right?
Post reply on HN