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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#461

Post by regentbowerbird »

quitit wrote: post #427
mtrovo wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I share the sentiment expressed, I highly doubt the general public would be as supportive if the roles were reversed, like if a 3rd world country attempted to nationalize an investment from a Western nation, particularly given the history of numerous nationalization attempts in Latin America with very public Western involvement in coups.

I think they're difficult to compare. The western companies aren't using the business as a strategic tool to destabilise the host country. While nationalising something like an oil company is only about changing where profits are sent.

> The western companies aren't using the business as a strategic tool to destabilise the host country.

What is your source for this claim? Wouldn't companies destabilize the host country to facilitate their own business?

Western companies have been destabilizing local regimes for centuries at this point. Companies in general are a convenient way to mask state power that pays for itself. Many of these companies were established in former colonies as a direct replacement for explicitly colonial resource extraction.

Searching online for examples I find Glencore, TotalEnergies, ExxonMobil, Chevron (among others) have all recently engaged in bribery or even supported violent political groups abroad to protect their own interests.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#462

Post by mns »

brazukadev wrote: post #158
misiek08 wrote: post #81

50 years of sending all the knowledge to China and now sudden realization that „data is the value”. Work was cheap, but we paid in IP and tech as a whole. It’s great to see how long term is China strategy and how well they execute it. Good luck for us all being „independent”. We can make processors out of attached plastic bottle caps…

It is funny that there are more people blaming China than the shareholders that made trillions of dollars.

I don't think people are blaming China. You can see this from all the extremist movements in Europe. People are blaming politicians and the "elite". They gave away for free all the technological advancements and knowledge to China to make huge profits and become filthy rich, and now they complaining that no one is buying their expensive outdated cars and other goods that people can't afford because they don't have decent jobs any more and the economy is bad. The only goal with outsourcing everything to China was to make as much money as possible for themselves, with no regard for the future and how this will affect our economies in the long run, but that doesn't matter when you are rich, for now.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#463

Post by benjiro »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #424
like_any_other wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose. As far as I understand, Samsung, TSMC, and SMIC are all closely guarded by their respective governments. And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - every…

> And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. This is one of the most persistent misunderstandings about China. China had a closed, planned economy. It began opening up to foreign investment in the 1980s, but not all at once in every sector. China's general approach has been gradual, instead of the "shock therapy" that the ex-Soviet Union went through (which…

> China has been moving towards more openness to foreign investment over time

After they lost most of those same foreign investors that got tired of handing over their IP, the "local partnering" (what often resulted in state/court backed judgements against the foreign investors), ...

The disasters "wolf warrior" politics, combined with the above mentioned issues. And the stringent monetary policies limitation on moving money out of China did not help (translation: We want you to put money in, not being able to pull it out).

This has resulted in a reduction of foreign investment by almost 70% (given the 15 year average). What used to be easily be 200 a 250B investments per year, has now dropped to barely 100B, and is still declining.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#464

Post by tchalla »

amai wrote: post #362

As long as western companies cannot freely buy companies in China the reverse shouldn't be possible, too. Business with dictatorships must stop as soon as possible. In fact it should be forbidden. Nothing good comes out of that. I hope we will see more moves like this from democratic governments.

I’m all for level playing fields if they are level. Everyone flex their muscle in different ways. What unfair advantages do you think the USA and EU have but China doesn’t?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#465

Post by mtrovo »

quitit wrote: post #427
mtrovo wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I share the sentiment expressed, I highly doubt the general public would be as supportive if the roles were reversed, like if a 3rd world country attempted to nationalize an investment from a Western nation, particularly given the history of numerous nationalization attempts in Latin America with very public Western involvement in coups.

I think they're difficult to compare. The western companies aren't using the business as a strategic tool to destabilise the host country. While nationalising something like an oil company is only about changing where profits are sent.

Really depends on your definition of destabilise the host country, not that this is what's happening right now in the Dutch case.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#466

Post by tchalla »

quitit wrote: post #427
mtrovo wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I share the sentiment expressed, I highly doubt the general public would be as supportive if the roles were reversed, like if a 3rd world country attempted to nationalize an investment from a Western nation, particularly given the history of numerous nationalization attempts in Latin America with very public Western involvement in coups.

I think they're difficult to compare. The western companies aren't using the business as a strategic tool to destabilise the host country. While nationalising something like an oil company is only about changing where profits are sent.

> The western companies aren't using the business as a strategic tool to destabilise the host country.

Do western governments use other methods to destabilise the host countries? What should be done about those?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#467

Post by legacynl »

ta20240528 wrote: post #380
legacynl wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares what their legislation says. Xi and ccp can change that at will at anytime.

So can Trump and USA. If the west want's the other 7 billion to care, you're going to have to find some principles and live by them. Without exception.

Same dude!

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#468

Post by fragmede »

quitit wrote: post #427
mtrovo wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I share the sentiment expressed, I highly doubt the general public would be as supportive if the roles were reversed, like if a 3rd world country attempted to nationalize an investment from a Western nation, particularly given the history of numerous nationalization attempts in Latin America with very public Western involvement in coups.

I think they're difficult to compare. The western companies aren't using the business as a strategic tool to destabilise the host country. While nationalising something like an oil company is only about changing where profits are sent.

> The western companies aren't using the business as a strategic tool to destabilise the host country.

The 2004 book "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins makes the US has.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#469

Post by wraptile »

amai wrote: post #362

As long as western companies cannot freely buy companies in China the reverse shouldn't be possible, too. Business with dictatorships must stop as soon as possible. In fact it should be forbidden. Nothing good comes out of that. I hope we will see more moves like this from democratic governments.

> nothing good comes out of that

One might argue that global connection through economic ties is what gave us thes last 50 years of relative peace. So even with talent/ip drain there's a solid humanitarian and cosmopolitan argument here that trade is just good for humanity even when "unfair".

I'm not saying thats the case here but I would not dismiss this as "nothing good comes out of that"

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