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Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

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Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this 100%, it's not just gambling it's that the idea there's a steady path you can follow to success has basically disappeared. In a survey[1] asking how much money was required for financial success, Zoomers averaged $10MM, almost double millennials and 10x boomers. A lot of people online took the opportunity to criticize zoomers as out of touch and financially illiterate, but I think most people under…

Shouldn't you expect Zoomers to be more than double millenials? They're 20 years younger, which means money is 4x cheaper.

Yes, I am not seeing any problem with the $10M figure, assuming one wants to insure against old age health expenses, insure against loss of income between age 50 and 70, and be able to to travel here and there between the age of 60 and 80.

For a current 20 to 30 year old, they should expect SS benefits to come at a higher age, probably 72 or even 75, and whatever benefit amount they get will buy less than what it buys today. And they will have to shell out for better quality healthcare (i.e. a couple decades ago, they might have seen a doctor, but today, they see an NP/PA, and in a few more decades, they might not even get that).

The big expense is insuring against loss of income between age 50 and whatever age government benefits start. Most people will never make their way up the income ladder again, so they need to make sure they have adequate savings by then, otherwise they are cooked, and those are the ages that healthcare expenses start adding up.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the 13yos doing? Is there some fake-money sports betting platform or are they able to burn real money on it?

My son has mentioned friends whose fathers let them place bets. “Hey, who do you like for the wildcard game tonight, I’ll put a tenner ($10) on it for you.” It’s not seen the same way as a parent giving giving their kid alcohol or other age-gated things like that. Interestingly, considering the role that sports have in day to day social discourse & self-identity with teams (“we” need to win this game), I’ve heard a f…

> let's make it interesting

to which I've always responded, "How would that make it interesting?"

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#463
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a out zero chance it is done carefully or done to teach them "money disappears". Be serious. It does not even make sense as a lesson.

Give your kid $50. Place bets for him as he wants. When his balance hits zero, discuss.

You could do that, but it seems kind of obvious and condescending? Cause right now you can forbid it and theyll see all their friends lose money and never win anything until your child is of legal age. For everyone else, it seems like some kind of inherited cultural addiction that gets culturally passed down. Just openly mock gambling as evil/a scam/rigged and they'll probably be more likely to pick that up if you back with principals instead of taking the weak, confusing, and contradicting stance of feeding $50 into the evil system.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#464
I think eliminating online sports betting, and requiring it be done within the physical confines of a casino may help mitigate most of the concerns around this.

After all, sports betting was legal in several states such as NJ, Nevada, as long as they were taking place in the casinos in Atlantic City/Las Vegas, and we didn't see any major negative impacts like we do now.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this 100%, it's not just gambling it's that the idea there's a steady path you can follow to success has basically disappeared. In a survey[1] asking how much money was required for financial success, Zoomers averaged $10MM, almost double millennials and 10x boomers. A lot of people online took the opportunity to criticize zoomers as out of touch and financially illiterate, but I think most people under…

> $10MM Ah, so they are just basing their life decisions on falsehoods then? lol I know the world is different now, but I graduated high school in the wake of the 08 financial crisis. A lot of this Zoomer doomerism sounds like what people said about millennials. But I (and my future wife) just went to a state school with in-state tuition. Got tech/eng degrees with some debt (5 figures). Have worked in the industry wi…

Any anecdote will suffer from survivorship bias (and also negative anecdotes). The data on the other hand are very clear that people are not doing as well as their parents. Unless you have a theory as to why Americans simply became more lazy, etc. a starting point should sensibly be a systemic explanation.

Also, just speaking about your anecdote, let me add my own. I am also doing fine. Not particularly rich but middle class, good income, and savings for retirement. But I just got hit with compounding dental issues, which despite having the most expensive health insurance from my company that's well known for providing excellent employee benefits, it will end up costing me at least 20k out of pocket, potentially going up to 30-40k due to the need for multiple surgical procedures.

And fortunately we can manage it, but if the same issue had happened to me 5 years ago, I would basically be at the edge of my savings where even a minor unexpected cost would have put me in terrible shape, and 10 years ago I may have had to declare bankruptcy, or more likely, do without either suffering in pain, or pushing off the problem to be handled by even more expensive work a few years down the line, taking on expensive debt, or setting myself up for periodontal disease which leads to a whole host of issues including significantly increased risk of dementia.

Even if one is earning and saving decently, the precariousness of life in the US of A today is incredible.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give your kid $50. Place bets for him as he wants. When his balance hits zero, discuss.

You could do that, but it seems kind of obvious and condescending? Cause right now you can forbid it and theyll see all their friends lose money and never win anything until your child is of legal age. For everyone else, it seems like some kind of inherited cultural addiction that gets culturally passed down. Just openly mock gambling as evil/a scam/rigged and they'll probably be more likely to pick that up if you ba…

I think the point is saying something is "evil" is very unlikely to discourage young people from anything and even more likely to make it sound exciting and edgy.

It's like Oscar Wilde's famous quote: "As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar it will cease to be popular."

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard job market drives more screen time. Less jobs, less money to spend at bars or any other third place that has become paid, less money to network. You aren't spending time honing your craft now, you spend times on hustles trying to launch your social media account or by doing gig work on deliveries and rides hating. You spend more energy than ever making less money than ever and probably under more stress than…

>"Anyone who can do that is extraordinary, but I hope that isn't how we expect our future generations to operate." Although I'm roughly half the age of the median HN user, and don't have a lot of life experience, one thing I've learned over the last few years - particularly during covid - is that people will accomplish success after a difficult circumstance, and will come out one of two ways (which often decides thei…

One can also progress from 1. to 2. after living long enough, and realising how much luck has played into their fate.

It took me 10 years of career to realise how lucky I had been, even though I had put work and effort, in no way that alone accounts for my whole professional trajectory. A lot of it was due to sheer luck, by knowing the right people, at the right time, being in the right economical environment of a specific geographical place. Yes, you can work on things under your control to improve your chances with luck but it's still not something in anyone's entire control.

Believing purely in 1. is being blind to this aspect of life in general, a lot of achievements only happened due to luck, there are other thousands of people who were not as lucky and over time it completely changed their paths in life.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#468

I remember when gambling was actually just illegal in most of the USA. In my state, it was the state run lotto that was used to sell the idea "Hey we'll take lottery proceeds and fund education with it!!!!!". Of course, state-run lottery was legalized, and yes, the proceeds did run schools. The next funding session, they CUT the existing funding to schools and had the lottery run the bulk of the funding. They natural…

Sounds like Illinois

Indiana, but yeah, close for sure.

I think it was Illinois' state lotto that encouraged Indiana to also unrestrict it initially for government based gambling ($1 scratchoffs and weekly lotto drawing). Pretty sure they also did the "school budget scam" by transferring tax proceeds from the lotto instead of adding it as well.

Again, though, news in the 1980's didnt have as much traveling power, unless it showed up in the NY Times or other national level papers. And the local papers actuually did local news then.

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gambling encourages and creates bad behavior. I got to hang out at a local state-licensed casino for a few nights due to a work obligation. Try it some time and people watch. At best, there's groups of people having a good time. Usually they seemed to be associated with music or convention activity. Mostly, it's depressing, with old people blowing their pensions on stupid slot machines. At worst, there's really obvio…

What are the 13yos doing? Is there some fake-money sports betting platform or are they able to burn real money on it?

One of my biggest complaints with Steam is that it's basically an unlicensed casino with extra steps -- and one of the things you could do at one point was buy a "challenge pass" for a major tournament that was effectively a "pick 'em"-style bet on the outcome. There is no age gating on this, outside of a click-through prompt since the game is rated ESRB M/17+ and its equivalents.

1. You buy an event pass

2. The event pass contains a "coin" that can be upgraded, and grants access to a "pick 'em" interface

3. Based on the outcomes of the matches and your picks, the coin is upgraded

4. The upgraded coin allows access to "souvenir packages"

5. The "souvenir packages" and their contents (rare and/or unique weapon skins) can be traded on Steam's marketplace for store credit or currency

Re: Americans increasingly see legal sports betting as a bad thing for society

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's start with the obvious- in all forms of gambling the gamblers make a net loss. The games are hosted by very sophisticated companies, that have better mathematicians, and make money. > $x is pumped into the system by the punters, $y is extracted, $z is returned. The 'house' is the only winner. This is incorrect, specifically with regard to sports betting. Sports betting and poker are both winnable games. Most…

Net loss means that if you add all the players together, the losses exceed the winnings. Yes some individuals win (at least occasionally.) But as a group it's always a net loss (because the house takes a cut.)

The statement "in all forms of gambling the gamblers make a net loss" is ambiguous as to whether it's the gamblers as a whole or each of the gamblers making a net loss, and while I grant that it reads more like the way you're describing, the later context pushes the intended meaning in the other direction.

He says "The 'house' is the only winner," which is as a point of fact untrue - there are also individual gamblers who are winners. Saying this implies he thinks that each of the gamblers is a net loser.

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