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OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

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Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#461

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

zahlman wrote: post #373
nojs wrote: post #231

I think people are massively underestimating the money they will come from ads in the future. They generated $4.3B in revenue without any advertising program to monetise their 700 million weekly active users, most of whom use the free product. Google earns essentially all of its revenue from ads, $264B in 2024. ChatGPT has more consumer trust than Google at this point, and numerous ways of inserting sponsored results…

> $264B in 2024. Why is this much money spent on advertising? Surely it isn't really justified by increase in sales that could be attributed to the ads? You're telling me people actually buy these ridiculous products I see advertised?

Yes, they do. Advertising works. "Free with ads" isn't really free because on average you'll end up spending more money than you would otherwise. You're also paying more than if it was a subscription because the producer has to create both the product and also advertise it.

Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#462

Post by wltr »

chii wrote: post #435
sharkweek wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got “normie” friends who I’d bet don’t even know that what Google has at the top of their search results is “AI” results and instead assume it’s just some extension of the normal search results we’ve all gotten used to (knowledge graph) Every one of them refers to using “ChatGPT” when talking about AI. How likely is it to stay that way? No idea, but OpenAI has clearly captured a notable amount of mindshare in th…

when people started referring to searching the internet as googling, they know their brand has made it. It is the same with chatGPT.

Even I often tell I chatgeepeeteed the result, in the same fashion when I continue saying I googled the result, while actually I used Duck Duck Go. I could ask another LLM provider, but I have no idea how to communicate that properly to a non-technical folks. Heck, I don’t want to communicate that _properly_ to tech peers either. I don’t like these pedantic phrases ‘well, actually … that wasn’t Google, I used DDG for that.’ Sometimes I can say ‘web search,’ but ‘I googled that’ is just more natural thing to say.

Same here. I tried saying ‘I asked LLM’ or ‘I asked AI’ but that doesn’t sound right for me. So, in most conversations I say ‘I asked Chat GPT’ and in most of these situations, it feels like the exact provider does not matter, since essentially they are very similar in their nature.

Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#463

Post by necovek »

joering2 wrote: post #232
epolanski wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some OpenAI ads on Italian tv and they made no sense to me, they tried hard to be apple like, but realistically nobody knew what they were about.

Italian advertising is weird in general. Month ago leaving Venice we pulled over on a gas station and I started just going thru pages on some magazine. At some point I see advertising on what looks like old fashioned shoes - and owner of the company holding his son with sign "from generation to generation". Only thing - the ~3 year old boy is completely naked wearing only shoes with his little pee pee sticking out. I…

Not crazy, it's just a cultural thing.

US (and maybe the whole of Anglosaxon world) is a bit mired in this let's consider everything the worst case scenario: no, having a photo of your friend's naked kiddo they shared being funny at the beach or in the garden in your messenger app is not child pornography. The fact that there are extremely few people who might see it as sexual should not influence the overall population as much as it does.

For me, I wouldn't blink an eye to such an ad, but due to my exposure to US culture, I do feel uneasy about having photos like the above in my devices (to the point of also having a thought pass my mind when it's of my own kids mucking about).

I resist it because I believe it's the wrong cultural standard to adhere to: nakedness is not by default sexual, and especially with small kids before they develop any significant sexual characteristics.

Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#464

Post by nwellinghoff »

01100011 wrote: post #441
asa400 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is OpenAI's competitive moat? There's no product stickiness here. What prevents people from just using Google, who can build AI stuff into their existing massive search/ads/video/email/browser infrastructure? Normal, non-technical users can't tell the difference between these models at all, so their usage numbers are highly dependent on marketing. Google has massive distribution with world-wide brands that peopl…

I'm saying Google is going to win. They're not beholden to their current architecture as much as other shovelmakers and can pivot their TPU to offer the best inference perf/$. They also hold about as much personal data as anyone else and have plenty of stuff to train on in-house. I work for a competitor and even I think there's a good chance google "wins"(there's never a winner because the race never ends).

I think we are all forgetting that Google is a massive bureaucracy that has to move out of its own way to get anything done. The younger companies have a distinct advantage here. Hence the cycle of company growth and collapse.I think openai and the like have a very good chance here.

Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#465

Post by famouswaffles »

MountDoom wrote: post #405
returnInfinity wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGpt has won. I talk to all teens living nearby and they all use chatgpt and not Google. The teens, they don't know what is OpenAI, they don't know what is Gemini. They sure know what is ChatGPT.

All of these teens use Google Docs instead of OpenAI Docs, Google Meet instead of OpenAI Meet, Gmail instead of OpenAI Mail, etc. I'm sure that far fewer people to go gemini.google.com than to chatgpt.com, but Google has LLMs seamlessly integrated in each of these products, and it's a part of people's workflows at school and at work. For a while, I was convinced that OpenAI had won and that Google won't be able to re…

>All of these teens use Google Docs instead of OpenAI Docs, Google Meet instead of OpenAI Meet, Gmail instead of OpenAI Mail, etc.

Billions of people use Meta apps and products. Meta AI is all over all those apps. Why is usage minuscule compared to ChatGPT or even Gemini ? Google has billions of users, many using devices operating their own OS, in which Gemini is now the default AI assistant, so why does ChatGPT usage still dwarf Gemini's ?

People need to understand that just because you have users of product x, that doesn't mean you can just swoop in and convert them to product y even if you stuff it in their faces. Yes it's better than starting from scratch but that's about it. In the consumer LLM space, Open AI have by far the biggest brand and these mega conglomerates need to beat that and not the other way around. AI features in Google mail is not going to make people stop using GPT anymore than Edge being bundled in Windows will made people stop using Chrome.

Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#467

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

nojs wrote: post #231

I think people are massively underestimating the money they will come from ads in the future. They generated $4.3B in revenue without any advertising program to monetise their 700 million weekly active users, most of whom use the free product. Google earns essentially all of its revenue from ads, $264B in 2024. ChatGPT has more consumer trust than Google at this point, and numerous ways of inserting sponsored results…

Why do people always think that just because you have a lot of users it automatically translates to ad revenue? Yahoo has been one of the most trafficked site for decades and could never generate any reasonable amount of ad revenue.

The other side of the coin is that running an LLM will never be as cheap as search engine.

Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#468

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

famouswaffles wrote: post #465
MountDoom wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these teens use Google Docs instead of OpenAI Docs, Google Meet instead of OpenAI Meet, Gmail instead of OpenAI Mail, etc. I'm sure that far fewer people to go gemini.google.com than to chatgpt.com, but Google has LLMs seamlessly integrated in each of these products, and it's a part of people's workflows at school and at work. For a while, I was convinced that OpenAI had won and that Google won't be able to re…

>All of these teens use Google Docs instead of OpenAI Docs, Google Meet instead of OpenAI Meet, Gmail instead of OpenAI Mail, etc. Billions of people use Meta apps and products. Meta AI is all over all those apps. Why is usage minuscule compared to ChatGPT or even Gemini ? Google has billions of users, many using devices operating their own OS, in which Gemini is now the default AI assistant, so why does ChatGPT usag…

And Meta is making billions in profits using AI for ad targeting. They have a real business model.

Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#469

Post by MountDoom »

famouswaffles wrote: post #465
MountDoom wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these teens use Google Docs instead of OpenAI Docs, Google Meet instead of OpenAI Meet, Gmail instead of OpenAI Mail, etc. I'm sure that far fewer people to go gemini.google.com than to chatgpt.com, but Google has LLMs seamlessly integrated in each of these products, and it's a part of people's workflows at school and at work. For a while, I was convinced that OpenAI had won and that Google won't be able to re…

>All of these teens use Google Docs instead of OpenAI Docs, Google Meet instead of OpenAI Meet, Gmail instead of OpenAI Mail, etc. Billions of people use Meta apps and products. Meta AI is all over all those apps. Why is usage minuscule compared to ChatGPT or even Gemini ? Google has billions of users, many using devices operating their own OS, in which Gemini is now the default AI assistant, so why does ChatGPT usag…

Nah. No one is using Meta AI because it's shoehorned into contexts where you don't actually need it. And that's because these happen to be the only surfaces that Meta controls. They know full well they won't win there, which is probably why they're so desperate for a "hail Mary" in the VR / AR space.

For the average person, what's the most serious / valuable use of ChatGPT right now? It's stuff like writing essays, composing emails, planning tasks. This is precisely the context in which Google has a foothold. You don't need to open ChatGPT and then copy-and-paste if you have an AI button directly in the text editor or in the email app.

Re: OpenAI's H1 2025: $4.3B in income, $13.5B in loss

#470

Post by jofzar »

asa400 wrote: post #362
nojs wrote: post #231

I think people are massively underestimating the money they will come from ads in the future. They generated $4.3B in revenue without any advertising program to monetise their 700 million weekly active users, most of whom use the free product. Google earns essentially all of its revenue from ads, $264B in 2024. ChatGPT has more consumer trust than Google at this point, and numerous ways of inserting sponsored results…

What is OpenAI's competitive moat? There's no product stickiness here. What prevents people from just using Google, who can build AI stuff into their existing massive search/ads/video/email/browser infrastructure? Normal, non-technical users can't tell the difference between these models at all, so their usage numbers are highly dependent on marketing. Google has massive distribution with world-wide brands that peopl…

> What is OpenAI's competitive moat? There's no product stickiness here.

Would have agreed with you untill I saw the meltdown of people losing their "friend" when chatgpt 5 was released. Somehow openai has fallen into a "sticky" userbase.

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