Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people • Hacker News Board

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#461

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 6:59 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #331

grafmax wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who have less flow and no stock can increase their savings less than those with stock and the same flow. Many are not able to save at all. Those without stock receive only flow. Those with stock receive both flow and stock, and those with more stock profit more from rising stock. So the relationship between stock and “flow” is absolutely relevant if we want to understand wealth inequality, because the working…

> People who have less flow and no stock can increase their savings less than those with stock and the same flow. If they have savings they can buy stock. Nobody is sentenced to have savings only. > with the ownership class accruing profit that they receive by virtue of ownership. Anyone can buy stock with less than $100 and thereby join the ownership class.

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Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#462

Post by ImPostingOnHN » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:01 PM UTC

BobaFloutist wrote: post #357

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is for unexpected expenses that (a) you cannot foresee and (b) would be catastrophic to your finances I do not agree with that view, and I'm not sure that is how it is used in the US at least. In the US, for many people, health insurance is the only realistic means to obtain any healthcare, not just catastrophic care. I get injured at least annually due to mostly-outdoor physical activities, and have a chro…

I guess the idea is that you put a deductible amount of money into the account annually, and the tax-advantaged investment makes up for any difference between the deductible and the savings you get on premiums for having a HDHP (I.E. HDHP premiums + deductible - tax savings ≈ normal premiums + deductible). It's an insane way to run health insurance, and it just goes to show that expected value and mathematical benefi…

It's mathematically coherent, but it's value relies upon the assumption that we are already spending thousands out of pocket (but it's not taxed).

I prefer the option of don't spend thousands out of pocket, pay taxes on the unspent income. If I'm paying 100% of my healthcare costs, what good is the health insurance?

Here I think it boils down to whether one thinks it's okay for everybody to spend tens of thousands of dollars per year on medical care, as long as they (probably) aren't bankrupted.

If so, then they are probably more likely to view "don't bankrupt me bro" as the use case for health insurance, rather than "I need affordable medical care".

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#463

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:06 PM UTC

beezle wrote: post #311

Americans confuse need with 'nice to have' which leads to the "I don't have money for food/rent/hc" problem. You do not need cable tv or home internet. You do not need an iPhone or top end Samsung. There are many mid-range Android phones much cheaper that can add a MVNO phone plan for around $20/mo that has more than enough data for necessary internet. Key word: necessary. OTA HDTV is available to many millions at th…

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Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#464

Post by tossandthrow » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:09 PM UTC

prasadjoglekar wrote: post #456

tossandthrow wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that vain health insurance is never insurance. Getting a kid is not an accident for most modern people, and should never be seen as an event that could bankrupt anybody. Hence, deferring to the definition of insurance is futile. Then again - the US is the only country I know of that insists that health is something you insure.

You need to broaden your horizons then - look at the medical plans that are on offer in India. Or the travel medical insurance that every EU country requires you to carry. They are classic insurance. Having a kid without complications should not cost $50K. It should be a few grand at the most. If the kid now needs NICU, then yes, that's what insurance is for.

So, I exanped my horizon Besides the states there is south Africa who treat having a kid as some catastrophic event that might bankrupt you.

In EU countries the spirit of health insurance is socializing the cost / solidarity which we explicitly do not consider in the thread - please read the parents of that was not clear.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#465

Post by inerte » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:15 PM UTC

marcusverus wrote: post #269

inerte wrote: post #200

A few months ago I had a persistent irritation on my right eye, as if some dust was stuck there. Worried about it, I went to Urgent care and got billed $3400 (dollars) for antibiotics, WHICH WERE WRONG, an actual ophthalmologist said I had it scratched and just had to apply some drops. $250 for the ophthalmologist and about $50 for the drops. This week I am in Brazil for vacation, and my mother-in-law had a lot of ba…

> persistent irritation > went to Urgent care You waited until it became a problem, then went to an expensive option instead of contacting your GP and getting a recommendation for an in-network care? And were surprised that it was expensive? This is healthcare 101 in the US. You could have gotten the same care for a reasonable price had you done 1 hour of due diligence. We do not need to remake the system--which will…

I thought by adding the bit about "navigating the complexities" it would prevent comment like yours. You're blaming the victim here.

"it is YOUR FAULT for not reading the fine print"... yeah I know. I am stupid regular guy who would rather NOT have to understand the fine print and have things just work better like the rest of the developed world.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#466

Post by rich_sasha » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:19 PM UTC

Without in any way drawing a direct comparison, my impression is that everyone is stressed out by whatever is next on their Maslov pyramid. If it's food and housing, it will be food and housing. If it is achieving great showbiz success rather than moderate, it will be that.

Of course it's not the same, and being well fed and rested makes whatever psychological stress easier to bear.

But look at all the rich people seeing their shrinks. Or look at poor people in the UK, who really have it tough, but at no point seek to think, gee, we're better off than 90% of the world population, arent we lucky.

I am not equating the objective lack of basic life necessities to far fetched flights of fancy, but I have a feeling (huh) the subjective psychological feeling might feel the same.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#467

Post by marcusverus » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:46 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #393

marcusverus wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> persistent irritation > went to Urgent care You waited until it became a problem, then went to an expensive option instead of contacting your GP and getting a recommendation for an in-network care? And were surprised that it was expensive? This is healthcare 101 in the US. You could have gotten the same care for a reasonable price had you done 1 hour of due diligence. We do not need to remake the system--which will…

It takes about 6 months for me to get an appointment with my GP, and then it takes up to a month for their referral to a specialist to be approved, and only then can I make an appointment with my specialist, which is usually booking a few months out, making it about 9 months before I can see someone. Or I can go into urgent care, and get a referral submited that day, and see someone in only 3 months. My father in law…

> It takes about 6 months for me to get an appointment with my GP, and then it takes up to a month for their referral to a specialist to be approved, and only then can I make an appointment with my specialist, which is usually booking a few months out, making it about 9 months before I can see someone.

That is radically below par. The nice thing about the American system is that if your GP sucks (as yours clearly does), you can go out and get yourself a new GP! I'm able to get an appointment within a month for a checkup, a couple of days for pressing issues, and have gotten an in-network (non-specialist) referral for a same-day appointment the one time I needed urgent attention. The one time I got a specific referral whose office had a months-long waitlist, I found an in-network alternative, got an updated referral from my GP, and saw someone the following day. My wife regularly gets appointments with her GP or an in-network alternative within a day when she's sick and needs attention. It's worth noting that altering our system wouldn't improve your access to match mine, but would rather would diminish mine to match yours! Surely it's better for both of us if you just find a new GP?

> My father in law has a tumor, and was able to start radiation therapy almost 18 months after he first went into a doctor for his symptoms. The specialist scolded him for how long it took saying "there's permanent damage if you don't start treatment within 6 months, you should have come in much sooner" He nearly punched the guy.

What took so long?

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#468

Post by NotGMan » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:47 PM UTC

qualeed wrote: post #421

NotGMan wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to give them 2.5% of your money, see how it works out. Reality supports my case.

You may find it unfathomable to do so, but I already donate quite a bit more than 2.5% of my salary, as well as hours of my time every week, helping people less fortunate than myself. Whatever "reality" you're referring to isn't the same one I'm living in.

Good for you. Doesn't change the reality that most of them don't know how to handle money.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#469

Post by TFYS » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:49 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #162

Epa095 wrote: post #138

I encourage everyone to do the following simple exercise: look at the main stock market in your country, and see how far back you must go for the main index to be half of what it is today. The answer is probably somewhere between 5 and 7 years. Then find salary statistics, and see how much the average salary has increased in the same time. The answer is probably somewhere between 20 and 30%. And it really is as simpl…

>And it really is as simple as that. It really isn't, because your "simple" comparison is bunk. For one, it's measuring stock vs flow. Stock prices measure stock, eg. the size of a piggy bank. Salaries measure flow, eg. your annual salary. Directly comparing the two results is meaningless. It's easy to demonstrate this with the piggy bank example. If your salary was 50k/year, you saved 5k/year, then your piggy bank w…

Isn't the point still valid if you consider just the return on capital? If the market cap of the S&P500 was about 18 trillion in 2015 and returns 10%, the income going to to the owners of that capital is 1.8 trillion. In 2025 the market cap is 53 trillion, and a 10% return is then 5.3 trillion. That's an increase of almost 300%.

Now if the average salary was 48,000 in 2015 and there were 150 million people employed in the us, that's 7.2 trillion. The 2025 average is about 66,000 with 160 million employed. That's about 10 trillion. Around 40% increase in income going to labor. Am I missing something?

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#470

Post by WalterBright » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 7:54 PM UTC

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #410

WalterBright wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for fun, watch a movie from the 30s, 40s, 50s, etc., and take a look at the interiors of houses. We've got a lot better today, and a lot more of it. Even watch an episode of Dynasty (about rich people). Look at the crappy TV in the corner. I remember taking my last CRT TV to the recycler. I was sure glad to be rid of it.

You realize you're an enormously privileged, wealthy individual telling other people that don't have your wealth and privilege how they should feel the same as you? You don't even say "in my experience" you just condescend to others that they should recognize how great the world is for the 0.1%, completely unaware that it isn't great for people that can't afford food and housing. Nobody gives a shit about their TV wh…

I was born into a lower middle class family with several siblings. My dad skirted bankruptcy. My first car literally came from a junkyard in pieces, bought with money I earned from my paper route. Hardly 0.1%.

(I didn't know how bad things were for him until I went through his papers after he died.)

I began investing with my first real job, with another crappy car I repaired with junkyard parts.

A good friend of mine grew up in a family that qualified for welfare but wouldn't accept it. He didn't get past high school. He managed to make himself $10m before his tragic death. Yes, the US is the land of opportunity. Other countries can emulate it if they want to.

A couple years ago, I booked an Uber ride. The driver was a refugee from Afghanistan. He arrived in the US with nothing but his skin. Within a few months he had a thriving business, driving the Uber in whatever extra time he had left. It was fun talking to him - he was hella ambitious!