“No tax on tips” is an industry plant • Hacker News Board

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#461

Post by axus » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 2:59 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #253

It is interesting that the no tax on tips would expire in 2028, while the tax breaks, most affecting the wealthy, were made permanent in the same bill. A bit of political game i'd say.

Also, "The maximum annual deduction is $25,000 for individuals."

Taxes are still being assessed, and tips over $500 a week won't have their tax refunded.

Some rhetoric during BBB debate was a side effect of a similar political game; cuts for "middle class" in the Tax Cuts and Jobs act from 8 years ago were due to expire, benefits for corporations were not.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#462

Post by walterbell » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:01 PM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #299

logifail wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

In 30+ years I’ve given exactly two restaurant servers 0% tip - it takes a lot for me to give someone nothing, but somehow they met the challenge.

In some scenarios, 1% tip can be informative to humans and data mining algorithms.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#463

Post by Lu2025 » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:03 PM UTC

atmavatar wrote: post #45

jrockway wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there is a lot of shadiness going on these days. I don't think tips should be requested in any sort of transaction where the employee gets paid more than minimum wage. Restaurants always had this weird system where you could avoid paying your employees if they were tipped, so it was drilled into everyone's head "you're stealing from poor innocent workers if you don't tip 20%". But this is not the case for most…

Peak tip cynicism is when you're at an upscale restaurant where the wait staff are obviously being paid more than minimum wage, the bill automatically includes a gratuity (often 18% or more), and then on top of that, there's a line to include another tip.

Another peak of cynicism is that the owners try to argue that the "service charge" is legally not a tip so it doesn't need to be distributed to workers.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#464

Post by HamsterDan » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:03 PM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #29

Don't forget to reduce your tips by the percentage they were previously being taxed, since it is all charity anyway. Hopefully this becomes another straw that will eventually break the camels back and we get rid of tipping all together. Every restaurant in the world does not need tips to survive, except for the ones in the US.

This is going to expand tipping dramatically. I don't understand how you could have any optimism that tipping will go away after this is passed.

Businesses are going to work hard to blur the line between a tip and a required payment so that they can call their income a tip while customers think they're obligated to pay it.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#465

Post by cestith » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:03 PM UTC

oulipo wrote: post #122

oellegaard wrote: post #71

It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.

That's why I never tip. Otherwise you're giving the perfect excuse to restaurant owners to lower wages. - have a liveable minimum wage - force restaurant owners to pay at least that period

If you’re in the US and refuse to tip, you should consider only eating out at places that pay more than the tipped minimum wage (in many states still $2.13 an hour). If you’re going to protest with your wallet, hurt the owners and not the staff.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#466

Post by amosslade » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:04 PM UTC

My daughter works at a mid-tier restaurant 35 hours a week and makes more than my wife who is a math teacher, department head, and has many years of teaching experience.

Eliminating tips and increasing the base wage is a stupid idea. All the talented servers who love the job will leave and mediocre people will replace them.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#467

Post by saurik » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:04 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #453

> But, when three members of the group came forward to testify, all expressed support for the Tipped Workers Protection Act and opposition to the One Fair Wage Act, which they portrayed as an effort to steal their tips This article is missing a real issue here by trying to make the story all about the employers. Many workers like the tip system because it creates inequality among the restaurant workers. Good servers…

Some people always like the status quo: no bloc is 100% consistent. With numbers like what you provide, though, this would be a minority of affected people... though, the ones with the most money to lobby.

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#468

Post by marcellus23 » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:05 PM UTC

SSchick wrote: post #133

My tips have been going down progressively, when I moved to the US I was taught 20% is "normal", now I tip 15% at MOST at restaurants and at MOST 5% on take out. I'm tired of being shamed to pay more for less. Also whoever was in charge of teaching staff to "turn away in shame" when the tipping screen is shown needs to go to some sort of gulag.

> and at MOST 5% on take out

Why would you ever tip on take out? What are you tipping for exactly?

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#469

Post by amosslade » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:05 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #453

> But, when three members of the group came forward to testify, all expressed support for the Tipped Workers Protection Act and opposition to the One Fair Wage Act, which they portrayed as an effort to steal their tips This article is missing a real issue here by trying to make the story all about the employers. Many workers like the tip system because it creates inequality among the restaurant workers. Good servers…

>creates inequality

Did you mean that it rewards them for their efforts?

Re: “No tax on tips” is an industry plant

#470

Post by xp84 » Fri, Aug 01, 2025, 3:06 PM UTC

mindcandy wrote: post #407

xp84 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gready sleazeballs who like the "tipping" system (mostly, restaurant owners) would prefer to pay all their employees $0 and have all diners/customers/etc pay 100% of the wages out of guilt. While 10% was customary in the first half of the 20th century, the standard tip gradually increased to 15% by the 1980s. In 2025 it's not uncommon to see little shortcut buttons for 20, 25, 30%. You can see where this is going…

> would prefer to pay all their employees $0 and have all diners/customers/etc pay 100% of the wages out of guilt. It is my understanding that this is literally the origin of tipping. After the abolition of slavery, there were many black people newly looking for work. And, there were employers looking for workers, but unwilling to pay money to black people. So, someone got the idea to promote that tipping was somethi…

Perhaps shouting these problematic racist origins from the rooftops is our best shot at getting the support of the Left on board to at least establish that having business models based on obligatory tipping is unethical, if not to ban it.