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Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

helsinkitimes.fi

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Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#461

Post by OJFord »

paffdragon wrote: post #360
PaulRobinson wrote: post #113

I was in Helsinki for work a couple of years ago, walking back to my hotel with some colleagues after a few hours drinking (incredibly expensive, but quite nice), beer. It was around midnight and we happened to come across a very large mobile crane on the pavement blocking our way. As we stepped out (carefully), into the road to go around it, one of my Finnish colleagues started bemoaning that no cones or barriers ha…

Funny, but that was my impression of UK when I first visited (like 20 years ago). Cones, everywhere cones. As opposed to what I was used to in Eastern Europe where people just jumped off a car with shovels in the middle of the crossroads to fill a hole while drivers tried to navigate around them.

Yeah, if there aren't cones around something like this it's more likely that it's because the previous group out of the pub wandered off with them on their heads and left them as hats on statues on their way home, imo.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#462

Post by jcgl »

throw-qqqqq wrote: post #398
jcgl wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like European trucks with their cab-over-engine design generally have far better visibility than their American counterparts. Not to mention the fact that they’re often smaller and more maneuverable. Where I live in Europe, I’m always impressed to see how well these trucks are able to function in mixed-use areas. Never would have seen this where I grew up in the US.

AFAIK the European design is made to minimize the length of the truck. There is an EU limit on the total length of the truck and trailer in Europe (default 18.75m, EMS 25.25 etc.).

That reduced length is doubtless a big part of how they seem able operate successfully in the urban fabric. It’d be unthinkable with American-sized trucks and trailers.

Tangentially, the smaller ambulances and fire trucks here seem so much more sensible than what you see in America. Generally, I’d remark that many city design problems get easier if you can scale down the problem. In this case, the problem of managing and integrating motor vehicles.

Tangent to the tangent: I sure don’t miss the ear-splitting sirens you hear in the US. Good god.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#463

Post by Maxion »

tincholio wrote: post #393
Wilder7977 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Achieving a low amount of trips done by car is already something that doesn't happen magically, and is the result of policy decisions (e.g., invest in public transport). Then there are speed limits, road designs etc.

And the cost of parking... Parking your car in Hki is eye-watering

Weekdays during office hours, yeah. Sundays street parking is mostly free.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#464

Post by Maxion »

zahlman wrote: post #338
bravesoul2 wrote: post #260

I wonder if speed control of 50 to 30 km/h makes journeys faster in a city where you will hit traffic and traffic lights anyway. More consistent speeds, less braking.

Removing unnecessary stop lights (they will often become unnecessary when cars can just stop if there are pedestrians crossing, which is much easier from 30 than from 50) and even replacing intersections with roundabouts can make a big difference here (as long as you somehow get a population that understands what a roundabout is, anyway).

The proliferation of roundabouts over stoplights in Espoo has massively improved traffic in many many areas since I was a kid and it was all stoplights.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#465

Post by mallets »

anon191928 wrote: post #382
kennywinker wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several people is an understatement. based on population, if it was the US there’s more than 160 people in Helsinki every year NOT killed. So, thousands of people.

Meanwhile, US is losing 100 a day for traffic related days. It's literally like a war

And likely 10x that number injured or 3-4x with permanent life-altering injuries.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#466

Post by DaSHacka »

Earw0rm wrote: post #377
ekianjo wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

make cars not go faster than 30 mph at the engine control level. Problem solved and no need to put thousands of cameras everywhere.

But muh freedumb.

"'freedumb' is when you want your car to be capable of going over 30 mph"

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#467

Post by jollygoodshow »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #127
arp242 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"First 20mph year sees 100 fewer killed or badly hurt" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78w1891z03o So no, what you're saying is bollocks. And no one ever claimed that speed limits are the only solution.

[flagged]

Care to provide a source for that? TFA just mentions that the chief statistician wants three years of data for significance.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#468

Post by DaSHacka »

woodruffw wrote: post #256
aidenn0 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They lowered the speed limit by 5mph (8 km/h) throughout the entire town I live near. As far as I can tell, it just means that people now drive 15mph over the speed limit when they previously were driving 10mph over. The last fatality on the major road closest to my house involved someone driving over 60mph in a 45 zone. There was also a near-miss of a pedestrian on the sidewalk when a driver going over 100mph lost c…

Yes, that's why the second half of the equation is structural traffic calming: you both need to lower the speed limit and induce lower driving speeds. The US has historically not done a great job at the latter, and has mostly treated it as an enforcement problem (speeding cameras and tickets) rather than an environmental one (making the driver feel uncomfortable going over the speed limit, e.g. by making roads narrow…

> the >95% of the populace that speeds because it "feels right," and not because they're sociopathically detached.

What about driving over the speed limit makes one "sociopathically detached"?

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#469

Post by hdgvhicv »

globular-toast wrote: post #374
graemep wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the UK as a whole had a lower road traffic realted death rate than Finland did: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... The UK is not that different by comparison. It is a pretty remarkable achievement though, and shows what can be done.

That's because in the UK people just don't walk, except in certain places. You wouldn't get this crane incident happening in London, for example. But in other places people just won't walk there. One way to reduce deaths is just get everyone into cars.

People walk everywhere in London. Outside of London and some major cities, cars are constantly blocking pavements and that’s certainly an issue, and gets a reasonable amount of coverage in local press and Facebook because people do walk.

Majority of kids at my cons schools walk home or to the bus station. We’re unusual living miles away from any connected transport.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#470

Post by mmasu »

rwyinuse wrote: post #404
sophia01 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK is not that different by comparison. Do note that the UK is 15.6x as dense as Finland, and the climate is quite different: e.g. in Helsinki (southermost city) mean daily temperature is below freezing point 4/12 months of the year (very consequential for driving). E.g. in Scotland even the mean daily minimum does not cross freezing point in any month. OECD data has Finland at 0.36 fatalities per 10k vehicles…

Yet most deadly months for traffic in Finland are summer months, when more people are driving, drinking alcohol and having a lot of free time. At least in the countryside a stereotypical summer month death is one where bunch of young men go to a party with their old BMW or Merc, and then drive back in middle of the night at a crazy speed and hit a tree. Bonus points for the driver being drunk/on drugs and nobody wear…

is it also possible that one of the side effects of this are that people driving recreationally become sometimes exceptionally good at it? see how many great f1/rally pilots Finland has generated. Clearly not good when this happens while drunk tho
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