Live data from Hacker News

Material 3 Expressive

design.google

461–470 of 577 posts

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#461

Ah, yes. Just what I am looking for when I think about GUI on my computers checks notes rebelliousness, subculture, modernity.

Yeah, their metrics for it being good sounds so out of touch that their pride seems cringe-worthy.

If you take rebelliousness as "this doesn't follow the conventions we are used to", subculture as "this is weird in its own way" and modernity as "this reminds me of new modern design stuff I see", it makes it clear they aren't necessarily praises.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a couple of customers that deployed 7 endpoint security tools of the "hook into processes and inspect everything" variety. The exact mix was customer-specific, but if you're wondering what that looks like: * Stand-alone "best of breed" endpoint DLP * Stand-alone "best of breed" EDR * Process whitelisting tool * NAC posture assessment agent * Three different AV agents This is not even counting their VPN client(s…

And after all that, your company gets hacked through a misconfigured router.

> And after all that, your company gets hacked through a misconfigured router.

Or a more likely scenario - some dev with admin on their machine grabs a malicious NPM package, EDR doesn't grab it because they successfully lobbied to have certain directories exempt for performance reasons (like DevDrive on Windows, or WSL). SSH keys get stolen, and despite all the fancy security products, the environment is still a mess (which is why there's so many products to cover up that fact) so the dev actually has keys to prod, then you're hosed.

I've seen my fair share of orgs with a plethora of security "solutions" and yet fail to understand some basic principles like least privilege or separation of concerns and think all their security software is going to save them.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#464

The fact that it is hated here on HN is probably a good sign, no offense everyone. Engineer designed UI's are usually awful outside engineering circles, where they are obviously the best. It looks like Google is really just continuing the war on information density, and moving more and more towards a UI that represents a toddlers toy. Empty space, shapes over words, large buttons. Very easy to hate, but when you cons…

You can't ever win with people that freak out when they see a settings menu. There's no point trying to appease them.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#466
post #24

That's a mixed bag. Have a look at the linked https://m3.material.io/blog/building-with-m3-expressive to get a better impression of what this is about. From the guidelines given there, many parts of the design make sense and will help designs work better - grouping objects properly, be aware of contrast to highlight important elements, more options for good typography (instead of basically none, Android/Material offe…

Can you recommend another comprehensive design system? As an engineer, that's the most valuable thing about MD3: the figma design kit and per component design guidelines. It lets me offload a ton of workload I'd otherwise have to do myself (poorly) or outsource to a designer. I haven't seen another design system that is as comprehensive to material. Express seems like an evolutionary refresh with some things I could…

I am not aware of a better alternative. It is a good question, that would be quite helpful!

What I did in the past (with M3) is to add some additional design tweaks (in flutter), like giving buttons an elevation. That worked when I had the designer on my side and since the app came from flutters M2 style, which had similar aspects. But it is cumbersome to argue against a google guideline with only usability knowledge and test results, and it also frankly depends on each component what can be done, which means the adapted design can easily become inconsistent if one is not careful.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#467

As someone who works in UX, I admire all the work the Google UX team puts into Material: tons of documentation, UI kits, theme generation tools, a lot of thinking on systematizing the color combinations, etc. However, this article has a lot of "Pepsi Logo" vibes ( https://www.scribd.com/document/541500744/Pepsi-Arnell-02110... ). I never confirmed if this was a hoax, but it was made into many news websites at the tim…

> By contrast, Apple, which is often praised for its product aesthetics, never makes marketing content like this about its design language. It may present creating emojis as a huge feature or inflate some of its claims a bit, but in general, they let the product do the talking.

On top of that, when Apple makes a change or does a redesign, it's usually not overly disruptive (new macOS settings aside). The core functionality and layouts remain more or less the same, but it's just a new coat of paint. I still use my Mac the same way today, with the same keyboard shortcuts and workflow I did in 2006. Meanwhile, Windows has gone through no less than 5 total UI disruptions since then.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#468

As someone who works in UX, I admire all the work the Google UX team puts into Material: tons of documentation, UI kits, theme generation tools, a lot of thinking on systematizing the color combinations, etc. However, this article has a lot of "Pepsi Logo" vibes ( https://www.scribd.com/document/541500744/Pepsi-Arnell-02110... ). I never confirmed if this was a hoax, but it was made into many news websites at the tim…

But it has a 30% increase in the key attribute of “rebelliousness”!

Reeks of "we asked about 1000 attributes and took our favourite ones that happened to go up" despite those increases not being statistically significant.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#469
post #146
post #24

That's a mixed bag. Have a look at the linked https://m3.material.io/blog/building-with-m3-expressive to get a better impression of what this is about. From the guidelines given there, many parts of the design make sense and will help designs work better - grouping objects properly, be aware of contrast to highlight important elements, more options for good typography (instead of basically none, Android/Material offe…

> But it's still a flat design, and thus does not properly transport clickability. And toggled / disabled states. With mobile’s lack of hover, it’s often a game of trial and error to figure out what’s even interactable. > And their weird approach for the color schemes still leads to an ugly mess, pastel with weird contrasts and color combinations that just are ugly. It looks like a poster for a party. To extrapolate,…

> And toggled / disabled states. With mobile’s lack of hover, it’s often a game of trial and error to figure out what’s even interactable.

The toggle switch is one of the worst UI conventions to come out of mobile IMO and I get irrationally irate when I see it in desktop UIs with a mouse and keyboard.

A simple checkbox would have done just fine, we've those since forever, and they clearly convey either an on or off state.

Nope, not good enough, we need a toggle switch. Which color or direction is on or off? Who knows, because everyone implements it differently.

Re: Material 3 Expressive

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it looks like they didn't just want an image though, they wanted the cursor to invert the color of whatever part of the web page it's over, and to seamlessly morph into a selection highlight whenever you mouse over certain controls. Seems like that's a lot harder to make performant.

You can do that by changing the cursor icon for the elements in question. The CSS rule does support per-element swapping (because of course it does, that’s how a text input has a bar but a button has a pointer).

The cursor color inversion can't be done with CSS though.
Post reply on HN