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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#461

Post by bolognafairy »

michaelt wrote: post #442
wqaatwt wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> liable to replace passengers' luggage Aren’t they? AFAIK it’s standard (if not required?) for airlines to have insurance which includes passenger legal liability. Were there any recent crashes where passengers weren’t compensated? e.g. after US Airways 1549 everyone received at minimum $5k (or higher depending on damages) for lost luggage. edit: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/205.5

In terms of explaining the passenger's behaviour, though - presumably they didn't know this, and didn't have time to research it on their phone during the crash. Airline customer service standards are very low; I can see how a person making the decision based on just their experience with airlines would conclude it was better to grab their carry-on if it was safe to do so.

Anyone that disregards explicit instruction by cabin crew, regarding safety, is an idiot, regardless.

I give zero shits if you think you’re going to lose your stuff. And you should give zero shits if I’m going to lose mine.

Don’t act like this is a class / means thing. It isn’t. This is just Americanism.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#462

Post by 7952 »

tssge wrote: post #426
kolp wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it had all her stuff, so she couldn't just leave it behind. /s

Sarcasm aside, while still not acceptable, some people might not have the means to buy new items to replace what they lost in a crash. So it is understandable for some people to make the choice of taking their luggage with them in such an event, as they might not have the wealth and/or insurance necessary to replace those items afterwards. Of course the solution would be to make airlines liable to replace passengers'…

They might even need clean underwear and have that in mind. Probably the most scary experience of their lives and people act strangely.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#463

Post by beerandt »

llm_nerd wrote: post #217
beerandt wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ATC calls out gusts at 33kts on his clearance call. Not excellent, especially if it's cross.

Runway conditions and landing conditions are not the same. The landing conditions were challenging. The runway conditions were considered dry. This is in contrast to various comments, including in here, bizarrely claiming that the runway had inches of "packed snow" and so on, apparently based upon a final crash scene that wasn't actually on the runway.

Ok but 1) both are critical and 2) if it's been snowing and there's 33kt gusts idk how the runway stays snow/ice/moisture free.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#464

Post by eknkc »

leetrout wrote: post #449

Clear view from the plane waiting to take off https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/1isabt... Which also brings into mind cockpit distractions but its amazing they caught this on video.

I wonder why were they filming? Was there an early warning? Was it a sketchy landing in any case?

I mean aircraft are fascinating and people film them all the time but wouldn’t expect a pilot sitting in another one to casually film landings.

Maybe just an extremely lucky catch.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#465

Post by cluckindan »

jokoon wrote: post #414
jzer0cool wrote: post #412

Noticing number of major planes incidents suddenly over last few weeks ...

Yes, but so far no theory or link about the new administration

Google for Minneapolis Musk / Toronto Musk and the theory writes itself.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#466

Post by lmm »

signatoremo wrote: post #362
lmm wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> air transport is more suitable for medium to long distance, such as this Minneapolis-Toronto route. Eh maybe. That's not much longer than Beijing-Shanghai. Rail can definitely be competitive. > The accident occurred on the ground Plane crashes generally do. Given that all plane journeys involve at least one takeoff and landing, it's fair to consider collisions and incidents during those as part of a safety comparis…

Beijing and Shanghai are the two largest cities in China. There is enough demand to justify trains. There are also at least 50 daily flights between the two cities. Now what is the demand between Minneapolis and Toronto?

The twin cities MSA has a population of about 3.7 million, the Toronto CMA 6.2 million, so Chinese cities at a similar metropolitan area population and distance would be Kunming and Changsha. Which see 20 trains a day per direction, not counting the slower sleeper trains (and also 10-12 flights per day).

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#467

Post by randerson »

eknkc wrote: post #464
leetrout wrote: post #449

Clear view from the plane waiting to take off https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/1isabt... Which also brings into mind cockpit distractions but its amazing they caught this on video.

I wonder why were they filming? Was there an early warning? Was it a sketchy landing in any case? I mean aircraft are fascinating and people film them all the time but wouldn’t expect a pilot sitting in another one to casually film landings. Maybe just an extremely lucky catch.

Probably just because pilots generally think planes are cool, especially when landing, and there's not much else to do while waiting in line but film them.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#468

Post by lucgommans »

einhard wrote: post #22

I stitched together a small audio clip from LiveATC with both the Ground and Tower frequencies mapped to the Left and Right audio channels. It starts around the time the aircraft was cleared to land, and then skips forward to the moment the controllers realized the aircraft crashed. Here is a link to the .mp3 file (it's on Discord for now - I don't know if this is allowed, let me know if it isn't): https://cdn.discor…

Rehosted so it'll stay alive at least a few years: https://lucgommans.nl/tmp/YYZ_Crash.mp3>. Let me know if you'd like something more permanent than my tmp dump folder, or a filename that gives credits or so! (BTW if you're editing clips, I can recommend exporting to Opus instead of ancient MP3: released in ~2012 so support is very good by now and it's like twice the quality at the same file size, probably even better for speech)

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#469

Post by michaelt »

bolognafairy wrote: post #461
michaelt wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of explaining the passenger's behaviour, though - presumably they didn't know this, and didn't have time to research it on their phone during the crash. Airline customer service standards are very low; I can see how a person making the decision based on just their experience with airlines would conclude it was better to grab their carry-on if it was safe to do so.

Anyone that disregards explicit instruction by cabin crew, regarding safety, is an idiot, regardless. I give zero shits if you think you’re going to lose your stuff. And you should give zero shits if I’m going to lose mine. Don’t act like this is a class / means thing. It isn’t. This is just Americanism.

> I give zero shits if you think you’re going to lose your stuff.

Yeah, last time an airline lost my bag they said pretty much the same thing.

The way I see it, there are two types of idiot:

You're an idiot if you delay the evacuation of a crashed plane. Shit's on fire, yo.

And you're an idiot if you expect an airline will make you whole. Airlines are in the business of delivering the worst customer service they can get away with - they don't even guarantee that a person who has booked a seat on a flight will have a seat on the flight.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#470

Post by lucb1e »

fransje26 wrote: post #417
walthamstow wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN has a particular fascination with aviation disasters. No disrespect at all, I've learnt more about aviation here than anywhere else. Before I came here I just assumed the whole thing to be magic.

> HN has a particular fascination with aviation disasters. HN has a fascination with Boeing's incompetency, greed and corner cutting that resulted in lost lives. That evolved tangentially into an interest in aviation incidents and accidents.

> That evolved tangentially into

I really think that's some reverse causality here (source: been here since at least 2012, eyeing my account registration date). The Boeing thing is of recent years but commercial airline crashes have always been interesting to many people from my perception

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