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Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

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Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#461
post #424
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop and try again? Either you’re not going to get a choice, or you’ll need a 240v three phase outlet installed and possibly an expanded electrical panel. Nvidia has been all about “as fast as possible, no compromise” for a very long time now. So was Intel, until the Pentium 4 forced a big reset. At a certain point this stuff is just totally untenable. Throw more amps at it stops being workable. Apple seems to be abl…

> I have the impression Intel is doing the same, though I’m less sure on that one. That may be true on the low-power end of their lineup, but certainly not for the high end i9 chips. Those will increase the power budget for minuscule performance gains.

Sorry, I meant their GPUs. I should have clarified that.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#462
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not transformers, though. The coil/chokes are not galvanically isolated which makes them (more) efficient. Stepping down from 48V to 0.8V (with massive transient spikes) is generally way harder than doing it from 12V. So they may ended with multi step converters but that would mean more PC with more passives.

3.3V from 48V is a standard application for PoE. (12V intermediate is more common though.) The duty cycle does get a bit extreme. But yes, most step-down controllers can't cover both an 0.8V output voltage and 48-60V input voltage. (TI Webench gives me one - and only one - suggested circuit, using an LM5185. With an atrocious efficency estimate.) You'd probably use an intermediate 12V rail especially since that means…

Aside the step down, the transients can be quite crazy, which might make the power consumption higher (due to load line) calibration. 48V fets would have much worse RDSon compared to lower voltage spec'd ones. So it does make sense no single smart power stage to have such transistors (presently).

There are other issues, too. 48V would fry the GPU for sure, 12V often time does not even with a single power stage failure.

In the end we are talking about a stupid design (seriously 6 conductors in parallel, no balancing, no positive preload, lag connectors, no crimping, no solder) and the attempted fix is a much more sophisticated PCB design and passives.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#463
I really hope this means that we reign back in the power on these high end cards. 600 what is just too much for a connector like this. 450watts seems much safer (though I wish the spec as a whole had better margins). Nvidia really just tried to pass the 5090 as a new generation by pumping more power through it and it shows.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#464
post #307

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"3rD party connectors" is being waved around by armchair critics. The connectors on the receiving end of all of this aren't some cheap knock-off, they are from a reputable manufacturer and probably exceed the baseline.

No sane individual is going to buy 5090 for $2000-100000 and hook it up to a $15 Power supply.

Let's not forget that the 90 series cards in each generation won't be top end forever. Soon they will just be used cards like all other technology. And someone might be building their first computer, got a good deal on eBay on a 5090 which is 5 or 6 generations old, and cobble it together with some other old parts, and maybe a weak PSU, or an older 12vHP cable

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true, but to be fair, by the hardware the 5080 is really more of a 70 series cared in previous gens. I was just thinking of the insane top end of the 90 series.

> 5080 is really more of a 70 series Oft repeated, never explained. The numbers don't really mean anything and never have. 5080 is faster than the 5070 is faster than the 5060. That's what the number means. The performance gap between tiers isn't and has never been constant.

xquce linked a good video explaining why it's a 70 series card, but you don't remember this controversy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_RTX_40_series#RTX_4080...

The only thing that nvidia learned from that was to only offer the smaller version.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#466
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have a need for an exclusive water boiling device as we aren't obsessed with tea. Most people drink coffee and the heating element is already built into the coffee maker. Idk what else you'd use it for. The stove works fine for boiling water without needing a separate appliance.

They’re far faster than a stovetop most of the time, have auto shutoff so you can wander away for a minute or two or not pay attention to it and not boil off a lot of water, etc. Many parts of the world, it’s a good idea to boil water before using it for drinking, brushing teeth, etc. So it’s actually really convenient for many use cases besides tea or coffee.

That's fine, but there are no use cases in the US. If we are boiling water, it's for food, and we're doing it on the stove, just like the way everyone else cooks. In the US, there is no use case for a specialized water boiling appliance.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk but if computers are drawing enough power to melt themselves just to play ray traced Minecraft or write boilerplate Python code, perhaps we've gone wrong somewhere.

> write boilerplate Python code This is my biggest issue. I'm still impressed that we need GHz and GBs to run simple apps that were achievable with MHz and MBs 20+ years ago

I meant local AI.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

latency due to wiring distances is far from being an issue in these scenarios. The signals travel at the speed of light. 186 miles per millisecond. The problem you will encounter with pcie gen5 risers is signal integrity.

A single round trip isn't going to register, but there are multiple in a frame, so it's not inconceivable that it could add up at some point. I would like to see it demonstrated, though.

Without one of these rigs, you would not be able to do much at all because of the limited PCIe slots in the host. "not much" here means render times into the hours per clip to even longer. With the external chassis and additional cards, you could achieve enough bandwidth for realtime playback. Specific workflow would have been taking Red RAW camera footage that takes heavy compute to debayer, running whatever color correction on the video, running any additional filters like noise removal, finally writing the output back to something like a ProRes. Without the chassis, not happening, with the chassis you can do realtime playback during the session and faster than realtime during rendering/exporting.

Also, these were vital to systems like the MacPro Trashcan that had 0 PCIe slots. This system was a horrible system, and everyone I know that had one reverted back to their latest 2012 cheese grater systems with the chassis.

There was another guy I know that was building his own 3D render rig for his own home experimental use when those render engines started using GPUs. He built a 220v system that he'd unplug the dryer to use. It had way more GPU cards than he had slots for by using PCIe splitters. Again, these were not used to draw realtime graphics to a screen. They were solely compute nodes for the renderer. He was running circles around the CPU only render farm nodes.

People think that the PCIe lanes are the limiting factor, but again, that's just for getting the GPUs data back to the screen. As compute nodes, you do not need full lanes to get the benefits. But for doubting Thomas types like you, I'm sure my anecdotal isn't worth much

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#469
post #460
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the States, I've already banished non-Metric "Freedom units" from my workshop. I can do the same with 120v. (And indeed: Back in the mining days, my somewhat diminutive rig was running from a dedicated 240v circuit. It made my already-efficient power supplies a tiny bit more efficient, and it saved a bit on copper. I've already got plans for 240v outlets in the kitchen.)

> I've already got plans for 240v outlets in the kitchen. Likewise, I just need to find a kettle with a NEMA 6-15 plug

That was a good chuckle, thanks! The image of that honkin' big plug on a kettle is great!

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not realize the outlet impacts the amperage… Is it a rating issue, or is there an actual part there that will trip?

Retired electrician's comments: Most of the US utilizes the NEC for installation compliance. Per NEC, 15A-style outlets are "to code" on 20A circuits unless a single recepticle ("dedicated") circuit — in which case a 20A-style recepticle MUST be installed. For any electric appliance (including computers) which operates for 3hrs+ ("continuously"), the circuit rating is reduced to 80% capacity (e.g. only 16A load allow…

> For any electric appliance (including computers) which operates for 3hrs+ ("continuously"), the circuit rating is reduced to 80% capacity

That's a new one for me. Do you have a reference for that? I'd love to read more.

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