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Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

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Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#461

Post by throw0101c »

fakedang wrote: post #389
throw0101c wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] Like Catholicism […] Interestingly all 3 of the above examples maintain strict conditions that their respective holy books must not be translated into the local languages. Strange then that the Pope asked someone to translate the Christian Bible—originally written in Koine Greek—into Latin, the lingua franca of the Western Mediterranean: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate

Even strange then that William Tyndale was executed for his opposition to the church, largely through his translation work. > Tyndale's translations were the first English Scriptures to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English translation to take advantage of the printing press, the first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation, and the first English translation to use Jehovah ("Iehouah") as…

> Even strange then that William Tyndale was executed for his opposition to the church, largely through his translation work.

Nothing about translation work:

> In Tyndale's case, he was held in prison for a year and a half: his Roman Catholic inquisitor, Jacobus Latomus, gave him the opportunity to write a book stating his views; Latomus wrote a book in response to convince him of his errors; Tyndale wrote two in reply; Latomus wrote two further books in response to Tyndale. Latomus' three books were subsequently published as one volume: in these it can be seen that the discussion on heresy revolves around the contents of three other books Tyndale had written on topics like justification by faith, free will, the denial of the soul, and so on. Latomus makes no mention of Bible translation; indeed, it seems that in prison, Tyndale was allowed to continue making translations from the Hebrew.[40] Thomas Cromwell was involved in some intercession or plans such as extradition.[41]:220

> When Tyndale could not be convinced to abjure, he was handed over to the Brabantine secular arm and tried on charges of Lutheran heresy in 1536. The charges did not mention Bible translation, which was not illegal in the Netherlands.[40]: 317, 321

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale#Betrayal_and_d...

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#462

Post by Juliate »

shakna wrote: post #451
Juliate wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy this so much as this is the perfect excuse for evil in humanity to continue to govern, wherever it is (“yeah it’s bad, but there’s a Plan behind all this” - very similar to how Qanon tried to operate). You see continuity and consistence while others see that it’s not only the religion that conquered the Roman world, but the Roman Empire that also conquered the religion to secure its existence. So much of…

> one thread being that it mixed temporal and spiritual concerns instead of making them obviously distinct That's really, really, not something Christianity gained from Rome. Judaism is, and always has been, a religion of the practical world. It prescripts how to live, from the very beginning. The Torah is very concerned with the answering of how to live, as well as the why to live that way.

Good point, yes, Christianity came with its own judaic heritage.

But without the centralised, territorial organization, administrative structures, cultural tools (especially Latin) and normative legal framework from Rome, the Church wouldn't have had the means to influence consistently so much the society of its time and the ability to support and control a spread that extensive through Europe and further.

By choosing Christianity, Constantin found a way for the Empire to survive into something different. And Christianity gained a tremendous powerhouse to use and adapt for its own growth.

And my point is that this hybrid huge "thing" is more driven today by its institutional heritage than spiritual's (otherwise, it would act vehemently more about its power abuses, sexual abuses, and terrible understanding of marital life, if only for pastoral care). And that's because it's much more a man-made (and male-made) organisation rather than one guided by God.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#463

Post by glenstein »

amenhotep wrote: post #440
zoogeny wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, and more out of curiosity, I want to mention a tiny niche corner of CogSci I once came across on YouTube. There was a conference on a fringe branch of consciousness studies where a group of philosophers hold a claim that there is a qualitative difference of experience based on material substrate. That is to say, one view of consciousness suggests that if you froze a snapshot of a human brain in the proce…

It's going to sound rather hubristic, being that I'm just a random internet commenter and not a conference of philosophers, but this seems... nonsensical? I don't understand how it isn't obvious that the new consciousness instance would be unaware of the swap, or that nevertheless the perspective of the original instance would be completely disconnected from that of the new one. It seems to be a question that many ap…

Completely agree. I'm interested in the detour, perhaps as much fascinated in the human psychology that prompt people to invest in these debates as anything about the question itself. We have psychology of science and political psychology and so it seems like a version of that that attempts to be predictive of how philosophers come to their dispositions is a worthy venture as well.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#464

Post by tartoran »

wienerberliner wrote: post #441
codr7 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children need human attention to thrive. Classes are WAY too big. There have been several very successful projects focused on getting adults to do homework with children.

Way too big for whom? While it is a common trope that we see classrooms with 25+ children/teenagers as too big, I have rarely seen a comment that complains on university lectures hosting too many students. How come? Good Lecture-design is a direct function of the percentage of students in a classroom who understand the input without lots of clarification needed. There's a reason why we have different forms of teachin…

Children still learn ways how to process input at young ages, smaller classes are likely beneficial for everyone as more attention is awarded to them. University students do not need such attention, students do miss lectures and catch up on them independently if they need to.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#465

Post by elmward »

antognini wrote: post #218
mistrial9 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this writing posted today by the Vatican shows modern scholarship and it appears, humility with respect to past Church attitudes about tech. Since just about everyone agrees that terrible mistakes were made in the distant past, and this writing shows active learning about how to approach new situations, the parent comment seems like immature and illogical mud-slinging, bringing up six hundred years old failures that…

I posted this comment more in the spirit of showing how the institution has evolved over the centuries. A lot of people think that the "Inquisition" was just something that happened once in the distant past, but it is still right here with us and is a very important part of the Curia.

Just another data point: I read your original comment as simply an observation without any particular agenda. It's correct and seemed non-judgemental to me.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#466

Post by BalinKing »

jcarrano wrote: post #450
BalinKing wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not Catholic, and I share your distrust of religious institutions. So with that disclaimer, I think my answer would be that God chooses, at times, to teach us things in a "small enough" way that we can understand them. For example, consider when the Bible gives concrete statements about what God wants us to do or not to, or when Jesus uses analogies and parables. Do we necessarily get the full picture? No, and th…

I once read that the collapse of the Roman empire set back technological progress a few centuries. Maybe it was a good thing. Could you imagine having atomic bombs with a XV century mentality? I'm not saying that the 500 years ago the mentality was worse, but maybe we weren't prepared yet.

Did you reply to the wrong comment, perhaps? (If not, and I'm just failing to understand your comment, then my apologies, and I'd appreciate clarification :-) )

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#467

Post by neuronexmachina »

Animats wrote: post #313
kittikitti wrote: post #284

I just want to appreciate how well written and thought out this was. I have spent countless hours reading over ethics on AI, especially from Big Tech sources, but this note is leaps beyond. I compare this to the disastrous letter that effectively knee-capped American AI all while proposing flimsy AI ethics within about 500 words ( https://futureoflife.org/open-letter/pause-giant-ai-experime... ). This should be anoth…

It is well thought out. The "AI Magna Carta" is a stretch, though. Some good insights: 60. Anthropomorphizing AI also poses specific challenges for the development of children, potentially encouraging them to develop patterns of interaction that treat human relationships in a transactional manner, as one would relate to a chatbot. Such habits could lead young people to see teachers as mere dispensers of information r…

> Genuine relationships, rooted in empathy and a steadfast commitment to the good of the other, are essential and irreplaceable in fostering the full development of the human person.

This reminds me of one of the main themes of Neal Stephenson's 1995 novel "Diamond Age": being "raised" by an AI agent, with vs without a caring human in the loop.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#468

Post by keybored »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #402
keybored wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is older than political liberalism and its accompanying capitalism.

> Democracy is older than political liberalism and its accompanying capitalism The Athenians and Romans weren’t capitalist. But they were closer to it than Marxism or neoliberalism. (They both had private property, money in elections, trade, finance, et cetera .)

> The Athenians and Romans weren’t capitalist.

False premise.

> But they were closer to it than Marxism or neoliberalism. (They both had private property, money in elections, trade, finance, et cetera.)

Just false.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#469

Post by wpankey »

Just a friendly reminder: no entity has destroyed and/or kept hidden more collective human knowledge than the Roman Empire i.e. The Catholic Church. AGI not controlled and/or filtered by the Church or it's globe controlling cronies will be a genuine threat to them all.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#470

Post by jll29 »

dsr_ wrote: post #383
zoogeny wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, and more out of curiosity, I want to mention a tiny niche corner of CogSci I once came across on YouTube. There was a conference on a fringe branch of consciousness studies where a group of philosophers hold a claim that there is a qualitative difference of experience based on material substrate. That is to say, one view of consciousness suggests that if you froze a snapshot of a human brain in the proce…

And then Marvin Minsky asked: what if you substitute one cell at a time with an exactly functioning electronic duplicate? At what point does this shift occur?

Related to that are Searle's "Chinese Room" argument and the question of "Mind uploading" (can you up/download mental states): https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/chinese-room/#ChinRoomArg...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading and Chapter 8 about Mind Uploading in https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alfredo-Pereira-Junior/...

The related Reddit conversation https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/2ew9i2/would_it...

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